SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays New Topic

About SheepShaver, a PPC Mac emulator for Windows, MacOS X, and Linux that can run System 7.5.3 to MacOS 9.0.4.

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marksimonson
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SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by marksimonson »

I've run into an issue with using SS on a Mac with an HDR display (Apple Pro Display XDR). I'm using a MBP with the M1 Max chip on macOS 13.2.1.

SS will crash on launch unless I run it in Rosetta.

On top of that, running under Rosetta (using the XDR profile), the color balance of the display is affected while SS is running, giving everything a weird bluish cast. On quitting SS, color goes back to normal.

If I change the display profile, the display color is not negatively affected when running under Rosetta.

I think maybe a recent OS update might be causing this crash. I don't remember the last time I ran SS, but it ran fine without Rosetta, although it had the same color balance issue with the XDR profile.

The same issues are present when using the built-in XDR display on the MBP.

I also had a result this morning that I'm unable to repeat: I was able to run successfully without the startup crash without Rosetta on the Pro Display XDR if the display preset was Apple Display (not the XDR profile). After testing different setups, it now crashes on launch regardless of the display profile without Rosetta.

I'm running the December 22, 2022 build.
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Before we start speculating about possible causes, please post here the content of your prefs file:

Launch Terminal (in /Application/Utilities/) and type at the prompt

Code: Select all

open ~/.sheepshaver_prefs
followed by a return.
The file will open in your default text editor. Select all content and copy and paste it here in your reply.
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by marksimonson »

I'm having trouble posting the prefs listing here. I keep getting a server error when I try.
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by marksimonson »

Here's a Dropbox link to the prefs file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4xn7mzdba8368 ... s.txt?dl=0

Also, when I wrote "crashes on launch", I should have been more specific. SS starts booting the os, but crashes just before the icons start appearing at the bottom of the "Starting Up..." Mac OS screen in the emulator.
Last edited by marksimonson on Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

I cannot see anything wrong in the settings.

You could try with the scale settings both set to false or with different color depth settings in the MacOS Monitors control panel. Unlikely that it would make a difference. but worth a try.

A difference between the Intel version (via Rosetta) and the ARM version is that in the ARM version the JIT compiler is not functional anymore. What happens in the Intel version with JIT compiler disabled? Again, very unlikely that the cause lies here, but worth to test anyway.

The fact that the crash occurs just before the start of the extensions' icons march could mean that also an extension is involved. What happens with Set "Mac OS 9.0.4 All" or "Mac OS 9.0.4 Base" chosen in the Extensions Manager control panel? ( I assume you have MacOS 9.0.4 installed.)
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by marksimonson »

I'm running it in 8.5.1.

I tried using the Extension Manager to limit things to "Mac OS Base", but it still crashes.

I tried starting in Rosetta, changing color depth to 256 colors, shutting down, disabling Rosetta, and starting SS. This worked! Doesn't seem to matter which color profile is selected (HDR or non-HDR). I can even change the color depth in the emulated Mac to "millions of colors"--doesn't crash. Changing the host color profile while it's running doesn't cause it to crash either.

"Thousands of colors" works okay, too.

However, if I shut down the emulated Mac while in "millions of colors", and start SS, then it crashes.
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Weird.

What happens with colors set to Thousands?

Edit: Sorry, you wrote that aleardy
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by marksimonson »

Thousands works okay too. It only crashes if it was left in millions last time it ran.
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

And what about the bluish cast when running under Rosetta using the XDR profile?
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by marksimonson »

Yes, that's still there, Rosetta or no Rosetta. Also there regardless of color depth in the emulated Mac.
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

And that affects all of the display? Not only SheepShaver?
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by marksimonson »

Yes, it affects the entire display. I took a couple of shots of the screen to show the difference. It might be a little subtle since the camera tries to compensate somewhat. It's more noticeable in person.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fdxvqknju1vq ... ipP6a?dl=0

The one on the left is the correct appearance, using a non-XDR preset. The one on the right is with the XDR preset enabled. Different shades that should be neutral gray appear either too warm or too cool when SS is running. Quitting SS restores the color balance.
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by marksimonson »

One other thing: If I turn off True Tone on the host Mac, the colors look more consistent, but running SS still affects the whole display when it's running, making it slightly dimmer, lower contrast, slightly bluer.
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Can you try adding to the prefs file the line:

Code: Select all

gammaramp off
It should not make a difference as it is the default.
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by marksimonson »

Interesting. Adding gammaramp off helps, but not entirely. The color balance still changes, but it's closer to what happens when True Tone is off. I don't' get the inconsistent gray values (some warm, some cool). Note: This is with the XDR profile. Color balance is not affected by SS if a non-XDR profile is enabled, True Tone or not.

FWIW, gammaramp off doesn't prevent the crash when millions of colors is on during the emulated Mac startup.
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Another question:

In Monitors and Sound control panel the ColorSync profile is best set to General RGB profile. Is it?

(I need to guess the names as my MacOS 8.5.1 installation is Dutch.)
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by marksimonson »

"Generic RGB Profile" is what it's set to.
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

At least you can use SheepShaver with thousands of colors.

Summerizing:
1. SheepShaver will crash during MacOS startup
2. This happens while using XDR displays
3. It happens with SheepShaver running natively on Apple Silicon, not when running with Rosetta
4. It happens with colors set to millions in MacOS, not when set to thousands or less
5. Colors can be set to millions without issues while SheepShaver is running but at next startup the crash will occur

Does the crash occur regardless display settings? (I couldn't find it in reading back this thread)
Can you see if it is SheepShaver application that crashes or the emulated machine? Or if it is a MacOS system crash?
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by marksimonson »

1. SheepShaver will crash during MacOS startup
Yes.
2. This happens while using XDR displays
Yes. Just to be sure, I connected the M1 MBP to a non-XDR display—the Apple Studio Display—in clamshell mode. No crash when the emulated Mac was left in millions of colors mode.
3. It happens with SheepShaver running natively on Apple Silicon, not when running with Rosetta
4. It happens with colors set to millions in MacOS, not when set to thousands or less
5. Colors can be set to millions without issues while SheepShaver is running but at next startup the crash will occur
Yes to all of these.
Does the crash occur regardless display settings? (I couldn't find it in reading back this thread)
Do you mean display settings on the hosting M1 Mac, or the emulated Mac?
Can you see if it is SheepShaver application that crashes or the emulated machine? Or if it is a MacOS system crash?
It's SheepShaver itself that crashes.

FWIW, the emulated Mac does not display the after-a-crash screen, where it checks the startup drive for damage. It starts up like nothing happened.

I also noticed that if the emulated Mac crashes for some reason (a program crashes, for instance), when it restarts, SheepShaver will crash if the emulated Mac was left in millions of colors mode.
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

marksimonson wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:19 pm
Does the crash occur regardless display settings? (I couldn't find it in reading back this thread)
Do you mean display settings on the hosting M1 Mac, or the emulated Mac?
I mean display settings on the host.
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by marksimonson »

There isn't much to change, other than display profiles.

The only other settings are resolution, refresh rate, brightness, automatic brightness, and True Tone. I tried changing these and it still crashes.

As I mentioned, a few times I was able to run without crashing if I change the profile to "Apple Display (500 nits)", which is a non-HDR profile. But I haven't been able to reproduce this, even after restarting the host Mac.
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

I will report the issue to the developer kanjitalk755. But I suppose he cannot do much about it without having access to a XDR display himself.
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by marksimonson »

Well, the 14" and 16" M1 MacBook Pros all have XDR displays built in. It's not just the Pro Display XDR.

Anyway, thanks!
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Yes, I know. But I doubt that kanjitalk755 owns such machines.
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Re: SheepShaver 2.5 and XDR displays

Post by marksimonson »

Gotcha. Well, thanks again.
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