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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:47 am 
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I'm tantalizingly close to having Starship Titanic working. Once I get into the game, the audio starts stuttering and crackling. It's really irritating. I'm looking for advice on audio extensions and QuickTime. Am I correct in not installing the QuickTime 3.0 from Starship Titanic? Do I need to disable some extensions in System 9.0.4? I have all but Apple Audio Extension enabled.

The game's original instructions tell us to disable all extensions. I tried that, but the game won't play because the QuickTime library isn't found.

So I uninstalled and reinstalled. This time, I checked the box to install QuickTime 3.0. But I worried, because I didn't want to crunch over the QuickTime 4 in SheepShaver. I thought, "Aha! I can install to the special StarshipTitanic drive I created." Well, ST couldn't find QuickTime again. So I removed that. I enabled all the extensions again, except for Apple Audio Extension. Same as before. Now I'm wondering if some other, magic combination of extensions will result in clean audio. I tried just enabling the QuickTime 4 extensions, then adding others to satisfy warning messages like "The application 'Starship Titanic' could not be opened because 'blah' could not be found." -- until the missing one was OTUtilityLib (or QT?), which is not in my list.

I installed the 1 Feb 2014 SheepShaver, with a new world ROM, onto my early 2008 dual quad-core Mac Pro (Intel) with 8 GB RAM. SheepShaver thinks it has 256 MB RAM. I'm running in window mode with 1024x768 SheepShaver and Dynamic updates. I have Mac OS 9.0.4 (Apple Internal, from Macintosh Garden).

Anyone know which extensions I need? Is there a way to play this with clean audio??

Thanks in advance!

David


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:29 am 
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I just had a look at the files that Startship Titanic has in its extensions. I'm not sure what it's doing with these, and I haven't allowed it to go through and install QuickTime 3. I think some of these are already enabled. Apple -> Control Panels -> Extensions Manager shows DrawSprocketLib and MPEG Layer - 3 DecoderLib enabled in my OS 9.0.4.

My Mac OS 9.0.4 doesn't seem to have SoundSprocketFilter or this mysterious Indeo(r) Video that appear in Starship Titanic's QuickTime Installer folder.

??? Hmmm.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:56 am 
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Sound in some games stutter in these emulators. If this is a 68k game, it could be that it runs better in one of the available BasiliskII builds. For older 68k games I recommend one of the BasiliskII builds by vasi.

For SheepShaver, be aware that:

1. The latest QuickTime version that is compatible with SheepShaver is 4.1.2. The installed version in your system is probably 4.1. Do not downgrade to version 3! QuickTime is always backward compatible, so if the game works with QT3 it should work with QT4.

2. Apple Audio Extension is not compatible with SheepShaver. How did it get in the Extensions folder? A general MacOS installer will usually not install it in SheepShaver with a default installation.

3. Many extensions, even extensions that are installed, are not functional in SheepShaver because the related hardware is not available. That also applies to some of the exotic extensions you mention.


Last edited by Ronald P. Regensburg on Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:48 am, edited 4 times in total.
 


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:43 am 
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Thanks Ronald!

My Mac OS came from Macintosh Garden. I chose: MacOS904_Internal.ZIP: Mac OS 9.0.4 Internal Edition CD-ROM image. The extensions I have were all just there after the install.

Before trying BasiliskII, I wonder if I might have better luck with this one, also from Macintosh Garden: MacOS904CD_Intl.ZIP: Mac OS 9.0.4 Retail CD-ROM image (International English). Those are available from the following page:
http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/mac-os-90-904-update-90-imac-dv-ibook-g3-g4-agp-904-g4-cube-g4-gigabit-ethernet-pb-g3-firewire

I found Starship Titanic at Macintosh Garden as well. The info says it was released in 1998.
http://macintoshgarden.org/games/starship-titanic

Thanks for the word about QuickTime. So it's starting to look like an extensions issue, or else Apple's internal edition was tailored for some specific Macs they used.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:00 am 
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You can try the retail 9.0.4 installer (I think this download includes a 9.0 installer and 9.0.4 updater.)

Quote:
So it's starting to look like an extensions issue

Maybe, maybe not. Sound in these emulators sometimes stutter. Fiddling with settings may improve performance, but often there is no solution. I am away most of this weekend. I will try Starship Titanic in SheepShaver myself when I have the time.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:06 am 
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If my memory does not fail, I think that Starship Titanic worked like a charm with SS on MacOS 7.6. (host machine OSX 10.6)
It may be that I had all three CDs mounted in SS with macintoshgarden.org/apps/virtual-dvd-romcd-utility.
To start the game, you have to navigate to the computer on the desk and insert the CD - after the ship crashed in, that is.
Be sure to download the map of the ship from the bonus files.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:57 pm 
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Tried Starship Titanic here in SheepShaver with MacOS 9.0.4 on OSX 10.10.1 Yosemite, and it works without stuttering.

(Starship Titanic is a PPC game, it will not run in BasiliskII.)

1. Mounted the first three CD.toast images by adding the files to the volumes list in SheepShaver preferences. (I locked the image files in OSX Finder, but that may not be necessary.)
2. Did the Standard installation without QT3 and restarted SheepShaver. Starship Titanic would not run because it missed a soundlib or something with similar name.
3. Uninstalled Starship Titanic using its installer.
4. Did again the Standard installation, this time allowing QT3 to install, and restarted SheepShaver.

Starship Titanic runs fine.

I inspected the QT files. The QT3 installer did not overwrite the QT4 extensions, only added Sound Manager 3.3 to the Extensions folder. It did install some other QT3 files, probably because these QT3 files have English names and the existing QT4 files in my Dutch MacOS have Dutch names. Those superfluous QT3 files could easily be removed.

I always thought that Sound Manager extension is not needed anymore since it rolled into the System in MacOS 7.6. Apparently the game wants it in the Extensions folder.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:28 am 
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Wow-- thanks for all the help! Unfortunately, I've spent several hours and made zero progress.

I recreated my SheepShaver setup from scratch with System 9.0, a retail disk image at Macintosh Garden. I re-unpacked the ST disk images, and re-installed Starship Titanic. I allowed QT3 to install. Same audio problems as before. Mine also seems to be breaking up now and then because of the extreme level. I'm unable to change the volume level. I have enabled "Built-in" in the Sound control panel. But any changes to the level just result in the control snapping back to maximum. Oddly, I seem to be able to change the level for system alerts.

I don't have Apple Audio Extension, but I have an extension called Sound Manager. I unchecked that. After the ST installation, I had another version of Sound Manager. I tried to uncheck both, but the change did not persist. So when it asked, I told it to delete one of them. So I now seem to have the original Mac OS 9.0 Sound Manager extension, although unchecked. I'm frustrated because the sound was a big part of my enjoyment of this game.

After deleting the Sound Manager that ST installed, I can no longer start the game. I get an alert saying that SoundLib--soundConverterSetInfo could not be found. This is after saying "Delete" to the second Sound Manager. A little comedy: The voice speaking the alert prefaced the message with "It's not my fault--". :-) So I just uninstalled ST and re-installed it again. It plays, but not with clean audio. I wonder what I may be missing.

I wonder if there could be something odd about my installation, since we now have two reports of good audio. I've now tried two different Mac OS 9 install disks. I've tried ST with and without the QuickTime 3 install. I tried removing the Sound and Control Panel preferences. I have the Sound Manager extension disabled. In my SheepShaver preferences, I have left unchecked the box "Disable Audio Output", and the devices listed are /dev/dsp and /dev/mixer.
Any ideas? I very much appreciate all the help you've given!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:54 am 
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Okay! I did something desperate. I noticed that sound worked fine except for Starship Titanic. What is different about this app? It has critical dependencies upon a particular version of QuickTime.

Knowing that Ronald installed QuickTime 3.0, in System 9.0.4, I returned to my original 9.0.4 system. I tried allowing the QuickTime 3.0 installation, several times. I had been using the "Easy Install". Finally, I tried the Custom Install, and checked the box to install everything. The installer let me know that there were newer versions of many of those components, and I kept clicking the button to use the older (Starship Titanic-provided) version. When the installer finished and tried to restart the system, I got a system error -- a "bomb panel". Yikes!

But now when I start Starship Titanic and continue my previous game, the audio sounds fine! Woo-hooo!

Now, should I be concerned about downgrading QuickTime in this way? I read dire warnings about doing this.

And here's a new concern: Looking at the extensions manager to see what was there, I have the following choice to make:

"There are extensions in this set that are not installed on your computer. Would you like to save information about the missing extensions?" [Cancel] [OK]

Which button should I press? I just got sound working in Starship Titanic, so I don't want to lose that. Would recording this information change the way anything works, or just leave hooks for later restoration, if I need them?

Thanks!

--David


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:53 am 
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Hi,

Saving the information about missing extensions only puts a text file on your desktop with a list of extensions not found in the actual extensions folder. No harm done.

One nice thing about SheepShaver is that you can make multiple installations of Mac OS using different hard disk files. So if you need another Mac OS and keep the current installation save, you remove the current disk from the volumes list and add a new one and install a fresh Mac OS on the new disk. You then only have to add the desired disk to the volumes list and boot from that.

Best,
Cat_7


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:55 am 
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djfinton wrote:
Knowing that Ronald installed QuickTime 3.0,

Actually, I did not install QuickTime 3. I allowed QT3 to install and the installer left all newer (QT4) files alone, did not replace them with the older QT3 files. Only the Sound Manager (missing in my QT 4.1.2 installation on OS 9.0.4) was installed.

Quote:
Now, should I be concerned about downgrading QuickTime in this way? I read dire warnings about doing this.

If you do not encounter problems displaying graphics or movies, I wouldn't worry.

Quote:
"There are extensions in this set that are not installed on your computer. Would you like to save information about the missing extensions?" [Cancel] [OK]

Clicking OK will only save a text file on the desktop with a list of extensions that were in the set before and appear to be removed. It does not do anything to the installed files.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:28 am 
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I tried Starship Titanic on a fresh International English Mac OS 9.0.4 installation in SheepShaver.

Installed the OS from a retail 9.0.4 CD image.
QuickTime 4.1 and Sound Manager 3.6.4 were installed by default as part of the OS installation. I did not change anything, did not disable extensions nor did I do additional installations. I only adjusted a few necessary settings for my keyboard, language, and location (control panels Date & Time, Keyboard, Numbers, and Text) and I selected "Built-in" for Output in Sound control panel.

I then did the Standard installation of Starship Titanic without allowing installation of QuickTime 3. The game runs fine.


Last edited by Ronald P. Regensburg on Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
 


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:29 pm 
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Huh. Just when I thought I could declare victory... I started playing the game again and wandered into the Parrot's room. The stuttering was so bad that his words were unintelligible.

I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong! I guess I'll do two things: I'll try again with a 9.0.4 International English installation. And this time I'll put my other installs into a folder on a separate virtual drive than the Mac OS drive, to facilitate future OS swapping. ;-)

Thanks for your help!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:38 pm 
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How do you use the Starship Titanic CD images? Do you add them to the volumes list in SheepShaver preferences like I did (and described above)?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:53 pm 
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Okay. I just competed a new installation with a retail image of system 9.0.4 International English. I installed Starship Titanic, left both checkboxes checked (extensions, and QuickTime 3). I installed to a separate drive than the one my Mac OS is on. At the end, there's always a Finder message asking me if I really want to remove Disk1, and, as always, I hit Cancel, and then the installer finishes with a success message. When the QuickTime installer starts, I leave it in "Easy" install mode, and tell it to go ahead. The opening sounds good (Doorbot), but when I get to check in with the Deskbot, the audio is screwed up. As always.

What in the world could be going wrong that's not going wrong for all of you?! I'm pulling out all my hair. Do I have my own personal black cloud? Could there be anything different with the hardware provided by my Mac Pro (early 2008 Intel tower), using line-out to my external speakers (although the audio problems are also evident on the built-in speaker)?

-Frustrated and clueless


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:54 pm 
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Oh, in case it matters: I have all three CDs mounted, and I select the maximal installation. I'm not prompted to change the CD, other than the strange message asking if I really want to remove CD1 (and I cancel out of that).


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:38 am 
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Ronald,

Just saw your earlier note. Yes, I use the three StarShip Titanic images from Macintosh Garden, with the .toast files added to SheepShaver's volumes list. When the system comes up, all three ST CDs are displayed on the desktop.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:53 pm 
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A wild guess:
Did you try the OldWorldROM too or just the NewWorldROM?
I usually prefer the OldWorldROM, but Ronald had the game going with the NewWorldROM presumably. The ROM should not matter that much, but it can´t harm to try.

Trying the OldWorldROM, I would also install a fresh MacOS 7.6.1 for a test drive.
In case you don´t have a 7.6 CD kicking around, images are included on Max1zzz private servers in the Mac Anthology DVDs. Macintoshgarden has a thread about Max´s servers.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:09 pm 
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I do notice a few minor stutters in loud music (the opening credentials movie) and some crackling with louder voices (like from Deskbot and the parrot) but not to the extend that it influences the experience or degrades the intelligibility of speech. I am not much of a gamer and I did not get any further.

Replacing the newworld rom with an oldworld rom does not make any difference with the sound here.


Last edited by Ronald P. Regensburg on Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:12 pm 
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Well, it may indeed have something to do with the MacOS version (or software that comes with it). I installed the game (Standard installation) in System 7.5.5 and installed QT3 (7.5.5 comes with QT2). Still a few stutters in the opening credentials movie, but the voices are crystal clear with no crackling. What's more: There are stereo sound effects, background sounds and echo's, that were missing in the game when played in MacOS 9.0.4.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:56 pm 
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Just in case your sanity is at risk, you are aware that there's a Windows version of ST, right? (You could presumably run it under Wine, or VMWare Fusion if you have that handy.)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:25 pm 
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I now got it to run in MacOS 9.0.4 without sound issues.

Apparently it needs QuickTime 3. However, downgrading QuickTime does not work by simply letting the installer replace newer files by the older files. There are usually files that appear in later versions that will not be removed by installing an older version over a newer version because the older version's installer does not know those new files.

I manually removed everything from the Extensions folder and from the Control Panels folder that had "QuickTime" in its name, as well as SoundSprocketLib, SoundSprocketFilter, and Sound Manager. Quit SheepShaver and started it again. Then I installed Starship Titanic and did the custom installation of all QuickTime 3 files allowing newer files to be replaced by the older ones. Again shut down SheepShaver and started it again. The game now runs just as good in 9.0.4 as it did in 7.5.5.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:04 am 
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Wow! I can hardly wait to try this! Thanks, folks. You rock!

I did just try the new world ROM (so far). I happen to own (somewhere) the Win version. I always got the feeling that Adams preferred the Mac platform, although I'm not sure there were any differences in the game. I have Wineskins on my to-do list for some other games, but I really want to get a solid SheepShaver recipe to share with relatives; my niece really wants to be able to play Zoo Tycoon again.

How much difference is there between System 7.6.1 and 9.0.4? I'm thinking that I might like to do what Ronald did, but I'm not sure I want to advocate that more complicated procedure for my relatives. Pros and cons, I guess, as always. I found a MacOS761CD.ZIP at Macintosh Garden.

http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-mac-os-76


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:27 pm 
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djfinton wrote:
How much difference is there between System 7.6.1 and 9.0.4?


Well, 9.0.4 is really Mac OS 8.7.4, and Mac OS 7.6.1 is a stopgap OS straddling the shift from System 7.5 to Mac OS 8.

So there is some software that won't run on 7.6.1, but for the most part, it's one of the most stable Classic OSes. I used it right up to 2000, when I finally switched over to 9.0.4. I had very few pieces of software that wouldn't run on it.

As for the look and feel, they're pretty much the same, although there's no contextual menus by default in 7.6.1. With additional extensions, I had 7.6.1 looking pretty much like 9 before I finally switched over; I didn't really ever see much of a difference, other than 9 defaulting to dumping things in an Applications folder, having a built-in web server, and other goodies like that. For just running third party software, the difference was negligible.

And 7.6.1 could run on any Old World Mac that was 32-bit clean (24 bit Macs only worked up to 7.5.5).

http://apple.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Mac_OS_versions


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:47 pm 
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Thanks, everyone! Ronald, I'm grateful for your time and help! Reward yourself by going down the well and acquainting yourself with the talking bomb (voice of John Cleese), and tormenting him by touching him a few times to try to disarm him.

I have Starship Titanic running in 9.0.4 and in 7.6.1. Sound is pretty good. There are a few minor wrinkles, but the dialog is clear, with all the echo effects preserved. The music sounds good. By the way, there is a music puzzle in this game, as well as some singing gondoliers.

I prefer 9.0.4 interface (crisper, menu action is easier for me). The biggest drawback of 7.6.1 for me is that my system doesn't seem to recognize my .bin installation files (eg, for StuffIt Expander and Disinfectant). Also, 7.6.1 would not recognize mounted disk images unless the files were actually present in my 7.6.1 folder with the SheepShaver app. I may want to have two versions of 9.0.4, though, one with the latest QuickTime.

Thanks again!

David


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