CD-ROM Burning

[Silent Flamer]

So, my aunt gave me an orange iBook G3 for free. I have an iso file of the Mac OS 9 setup here, so I wanted to burn it into a disk and then install.

The thing is, the only HFS+ driver I can seem to find is the one from Paragonsoft.
I then attempted to start up Basilisk, and burn the CD drive there. At first, I was confused why cdenable.sys could not be detected, then I read on a thread here that it doesn't work on 64-bit PCs. I forgot that my new PC here is not 32-bit, but 64-bit. As I booted several times in confusion, there was ONE occasion where the blank CD was detected, but I could not initialize it because it was "shared" (presumably because Windows was watching the disk as well). At all other times it was just a plain Audio CD.

So, how do I format the disk into HFS+ without paying?

[Jorpho]

I have an iso file of the Mac OS 9 setup here, so I wanted to burn it into a disk and then install.

What makes you think you need HFS+? An ISO is an ISO – you can burn it with ImgBurn or any old Windows CD-burning program that supports burning from images.

(I was also going to suggest getting a real OS 9 disc from eBay, but those are surprisingly expensive.)

[Silent Flamer]

Let me rephrase. I actually got it originally as a toast file, but I can change the extension and burn it just fine.

However, I am afraid that this blank CD may actually be formatted in FAT32, NTFS or some other file system only Windows can use. So, I want to format the CD into HFS+ so it would be guaranteed that the iBook will be able to read it.

[Cat_7]

Hi,

Blank CD's are not formatted. The way you put data on them makes them formatted. So if you start putting files on a CD from Windows, the CD will take on certain characteristics. (like sector size, etc).

However, the whole idea of .iso, .toast, or .nrg files is to make a copy of an original CD with the characteristics intact. When you burn them, you get a true copy of the original, whether it was of Mac or Windows origin.

So if the .toast (they normally come from the CD-burning program Toast on a Mac) is burnt from within a Windows-based burning program, it will maintain the Mac CD format. I know for sure Nero Burning can do that, as can many other programs.

Most of the time, when you select the .toast file in your burning program you can check what the characteristics of the file are. You can see which CD sessions are in the file and which data format they have.

All of this doesn't guarantee that the person who made the .toast file did this the correct way. This is specially true for CD's that should be bootable.

Hope this helps,
Cat_7

[emendelson]

Let me rephrase. I actually got it originally as a toast file, but I can change the extension and burn it just fine.

Wouldn't be easiest to try the burned CD in the machine to see if it works?

[Silent Flamer]

Alright, thanks Cat_7.

Let me rephrase. I actually got it originally as a toast file, but I can change the extension and burn it just fine.

Wouldn't be easiest to try the burned CD in the machine to see if it works?

I'll try when I get the charger for it (The charger is missing. I tried to boot it and see if there was a good amount of battery power left, but then it shut down into low power mode as soon as I pressed Shut Down because I saw the almost empty amount of power left)

[Silent Flamer]

Well, I tried but it didn't quite work out. The iBook said it couldn't recognize it, and offered to format it in a 0 MB ProDOS disk or an unnamed format. When I tried formatting it in the unnamed format, it said the disk is locked. I'll try a new method for now.

[Silent Flamer]

It seems the disk would be locked because it is a CD-R. In such a case, the problem may be solved by using a CD-RW. However, in that case, the disk would not be locked, and thus the Mac OS 9 setup will notice and refuse to install.

[Silent Flamer]

Sorry for replying so many times in a row.

http://www.google.ca/url?q=http://www.e ... sAOMDjJB9g

Cat_7 is right. I checked with Mactracker and it appears that, in standard configuration, all PowerMac G3 machines can only read CDs and DVDs.

I just found this link while searching around, and I have the exact same situation as him/her. I was rather surprised and worried when I found out that all PowerMac G3 machines can only read CDs and DVDs.

So, at this point, I have a bunch of CD-Rs. To use them in the iBook, it would have to be in HFS, HFS+, ISO or Joliet. I have a Mac OS 9 ISO file, which is in HFS. Burning it into a blank disk doesn't help because the iBook does not recognize the disk despite it supposedly being formatted in HFS. I cannot change the file format of the image, so to get the files into an ISO or Joliet image, I would have to make a new image and copy the files there.

The retail CD mounts without any problems, but as my new ISO/Joliet cd image doesn't have a fixed size, Mac OS 7 in Basilisk II decides to lock the disk to prevent copying. If I mount the disk in a virtual drive and then use the extfs function in Basilisk II, the folder is not locked, but any files that I attempt to copy into it claims that the file I'm copying is being used, despite being that these files can be copied to any other location with no problems. If I were to get a CD-RW, it would then be a dilemma on how to lock the CD so the installation would commence.

There are several more ideas that I haven't tried.

I could get a CD-RW, put the iso file in it together with an application that can handle ISO files (Disk Copy doesn't seem to be able to do that) and use that disk to transfer any future files. I was about to dismiss that idea, in reason that I have not found a file system that the iBook can recognize, but I realized I have not tried the ISO and Joliet filesystems on the iBook yet. I am now going to burn a blank CD in ISO format and I will test to see if the iBook would read it.

I can also get an AirPort router, connect it to the iBook and log in to a WiFi network to enable Internet access. However, I would have to download any files I need.

I can also buy a flash drive card to use a USB flash drive which may or may not be readable on Windows.

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

If you have a MacOS HFS .iso file and burn it to a CD, you will get a MacOS HFS CD, regardless on what kind of computer or OS you do this, it would work in any flavor of Windows, or Linux, or MacOS, or MacOSX alike. And whether or not the CD is R or RW is irrelevant.

Apparently you are making a common mistake when trying to burn the .iso file to a CD. It seems that you are trying to burn the .iso file as a file onto a CD, but you need to burn the .iso file to a CD. The result will not be a CD with a iso file on it but a perfect copy of the iso file as CD with the HFS or HFS+ file system intact.

See here: http://pcsupport.about.com/od/toolsofth ... sofile.htm

[Silent Flamer]

I do know whether I burned the file or the disc itself to the CD, Ronald.
Either way, I found an ethernet cable lying around, so now I'm actually replying in my iBook, sharing the broadband internet from my Inspiron 14r.

Of course, this is rather slow to actually download conventionally, so I will still need a CD to move files quickly.

*EDIT* Oh, and by the way, I did already try burning the iso file into the disc and burning the ISO itself into the disc. Both seemed to have failed. I think I will have to get a CD-RW for things to work. 

*EDIT* I just noticed that the iBook does claim data from the broadband, but completely bypasses the cap. With this speed, I should be able to easily download anything.b

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

*EDIT* Oh, and by the way, I did already try burning the iso file into the disc and burning the ISO itself into the disc. Both seemed to have failed. I think I will have to get a CD-RW for things to work.

If it did not work, either something is wrong with the .iso file or you did something wrong. Creating a working CD from a .iso file is easy and no extra provisions are needed for burning or reading the CD. But you do need to follow the correct procedure. There is no reason why a CD-RW would work better than a CD-R. Both will be treated as a the same read-only volume when read.

[Silent Flamer]

However, CD-RWs can be cleared and reformatted if the burning had an error of some sort, or if the file system did not work. CD-RWs can also be cleared and then fitted with more files in the future when I need to transport some things.

[Jorpho]

While a burned CD-R can generally be used in other CD drives, a CD-RW disc may not be readable at all in some older drives. It's a laser-power thing, I think. Also, in my experience they generally don't hold up very well to repeated erasings and re-writings.

And to be perfectly clear, the vast majority of applications will still regard a CD-RW disc as a "locked", read-only filesystem. There are specific utilities that will format the CD-RW disc with a unique filesystem that will allow it to be treated as a large floppy disc (packet writers), but generally said utilities are unreliable and the resulting disc is not particularly portable – you almost certainly wouldn't be able to read it on a Mac, for instance. Otherwise, it's really nothing more than a CD-R you can completely erase and re-burn afterwards.

*EDIT* Oh, and by the way, I did already try burning the iso file into the disc and burning the ISO itself into the disc. Both seemed to have failed.

ISOBuster is a Windows program that can recognize if a CD has an HFS filesystem present (and unlike Basilisk II or HFV Explorer, it works perfectly on 64-bit systems). You can use that to determine if the Mac OS ISO was properly written.

What program did you use for burning the ISO, anyway?

EDIT: For reference, this is what my genuine OS 9 CD looks like in ISOBuster. Note the tiny green HFS rectangle.


You can also use ISOBuster to open the contents of an image file (such as an ISO) and view its contents. (Unfortunately, you cannot extract files from CDs or images with HFS filesystems without registering.)

[Silent Flamer]

I have a registered PowerISO, which can also read HFS. The funny part is that when you're making a new image file, there are 6 options, 3 which are greyed out. One of those greyed out ones is HFS. I don't know why they would put that function there if you can't use it.

[24bit]

Pardon me Sirs, but this discussion is becoming pointless.
It has been pointed out, that plain HFS CDR´s can be made from valid images, with a couple of utilities.
This CDR can be used to install the desired Mac OS flawlessly.
No special tinkering is needed or will provide special benefits, if not for the sake of discussing it...

[Jorpho]

Burning it into a blank disk doesn't help because the iBook does not recognize the disk despite it supposedly being formatted in HFS.

A pertinent question would be whether the iBook's CD-drive is properly functioning at all. Have you tried other discs that should work? Can it play an audio CD, for instance?

I have a registered PowerISO, which can also read HFS.

Well, then shouldn't it be easy to establish whether or not the burning process actually failed?

The funny part is that when you're making a new image file, there are 6 options, 3 which are greyed out. One of those greyed out ones is HFS. I don't know why they would put that function there if you can't use it.

It's probably a UI design thing – it's easier to show the same six options for reading and writing and grey three of them out in the latter case then it would be to make two separate lists of options. Or something like that. The developers would know for sure.

[Silent Flamer]

Burning it into a blank disk doesn't help because the iBook does not recognize the disk despite it supposedly being formatted in HFS.

A pertinent question would be whether the iBook's CD-drive is properly functioning at all. Have you tried other discs that should work? Can it play an audio CD, for instance?
Yes, it can play Audio CDs just fine.

I have a registered PowerISO, which can also read HFS.

Well, then shouldn't it be easy to establish whether or not the burning process actually failed?
The burning was stated as successful, but if I insert the disk again, Windows and all other applications still see it as blank. It might've been successful or not.

The funny part is that when you're making a new image file, there are 6 options, 3 which are greyed out. One of those greyed out ones is HFS. I don't know why they would put that function there if you can't use it.

It's probably a UI design thing – it's easier to show the same six options for reading and writing and grey three of them out in the latter case then it would be to make two separate lists of options. Or something like that. The developers would know for sure.
I don't think there's a need to even make a list for readable file systems. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't make a program that can only read 6 different file systems.

Pardon me Sirs, but this discussion is becoming pointless.
It has been pointed out, that plain HFS CDR´s can be made from valid images, with a couple of utilities.
This CDR can be used to install the desired Mac OS flawlessly.
No special tinkering is needed or will provide special benefits, if not for the sake of discussing it...

The problem is not solved. If I follow the concept you just presented, if someone is having trouble running Basilisk II on their system, I could simply say that they were supposed to follow the guide, and claim that was all they need to know. So, no, this discussion is not becoming pointless.

*EDIT* Sorry if I was rude, blunt or misinterpreted your post.

[Jorpho]

I have a registered PowerISO, which can also read HFS.

Well, then shouldn't it be easy to establish whether or not the burning process actually failed?

The burning was stated as successful, but if I insert the disk again, Windows and all other applications still see it as blank. It might've been successful or not.

But Windows (and all other applications) would show it as blank whether it was successful or not, since Windows cannot recognize HFS CD-ROMs. Since PowerISO can apparently read HFS filesystems, does PowerISO show it as blank?

The funny part is that when you're making a new image file, there are 6 options, 3 which are greyed out. One of those greyed out ones is HFS. I don't know why they would put that function there if you can't use it.

It's probably a UI design thing – it's easier to show the same six options for reading and writing and grey three of them out in the latter case then it would be to make two separate lists of options. Or something like that. The developers would know for sure.

I don't think there's a need to even make a list for readable file systems. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't make a program that can only read 6 different file systems.

Why wouldn't they make a program that can only read 6 filesystems if there are only 6 filesystems they want the program to read? It's not like there's an unlimited number of filesystems out there that are all equally worthy of support (and all equally easy to support). Anyway, you'd have to ask the developers.

[Silent Flamer]

Yep. Even PowerISO shows it as blank, after burning.Ä

[Jorpho]

Well, I don't know what else to tell you, then – clearly, that should not be.

The only other thing I can think of is to try burning a perfectly ordinary ISO file that Windows should be able to read, and see if that works without any problems. Alternatively, if you've been burning this ISO image with PowerISO, try another program like ImgBurn.

[Silent Flamer]

Sorry for not replying for so long. Anyways, I got my 32-bit Inspiron 6400 back from repair, and it helps a lot in file transfering. I've managed to transfer files over wireless from the 14r to the 6400, then use the Ethernet cable to transfer to the Mac through Appletalk in Basilisk II.

Now, Toast was not able to get the audio files mounted from the Civilization II disk (thus there is no music in Civ II by default). I found out that if you load any Audio disc, Civilization II thinks it's the music, and plays it.

I found some of what Windows thinks are blank CDs, which however throws an error if I attempt to burn them (Windows Explorer, Windows Media Player, PowerISO and Roxio Burn all give errors). I looked at the back of the CD and found out all of them had data on them.

I also bought a CD-RW from the store, and loaded it on the 14r. Windows doesn't even notice the disc is there, and ejects if I try to open drive D: . However, the disc works and burns just fine in the 6400.

So, is it possible that the cause of all my burning errors are because my 14r CD-Drive is broken?