Option on Mac?

About BasiliskII, a 68k Mac emulator for Windows, MacOSX, and Linux that can run System 7.x through MacOS 8.1.

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nriley
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Option on Mac?

Post by nriley »

Hi,

I had been using an old version of Basilisk II from 2007 on my also 2007-vintage iMac, on OS X versions leading up to 10.6. This version was somewhat flaky, but I was able to get it to work pretty reliably. The iMac is dead and gone, so I tried this version on a newer Mac with 10.8 and it just gave me a gray screen on boot, so I tried dowloading newer versions of Basilisk II, which seem to come in two flavors — SDL and XQuartz.

In neither version can I successfully use both Option and Command. In the SDL version, when I hold down Option, nothing happens when I click. I can type Option-modified characters and the key highlights in (the emulated) Key Caps when I push it though. The other modifiers — Command, Control and Shift — all seem to work fine when I click. In the XQuartz version, the host Command key maps to Option, but Option does nothing.

Anyone else had/figured out this problem? Is there another version of Basilisk II which works better on current OS X versions?
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Option on Mac?

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

nriley wrote:In the SDL version, when I hold down Option, nothing happens when I click.
Not sure what the problem is. Which MacOS version do you run in BasiliskII, where do you use option-click, and what do you expect to happen that does not happen?
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Option on Mac?

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Which BasiliskII build did you try? I tried two different SDL builds in OSX 10.8.5 and in both the option key works fine. I can use for instance option-command-Y in Tex-Edit Plus to bring up a dialog for choosing a font size.
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BlueBoy
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Re: Option on Mac?

Post by BlueBoy »

I am also having this problem. In the SDL build "BasiliskII-64bit-etherhelper-JIT-SDL-09-07-2013" running on a Mountain Lion 10.8.5 on a MacBook Pro 15" Early 2011 I can type things like Command+W to close windows and Option+e and then e to get é, but Option+Click and Command+Click don't behave correctly.

On an emulated IIci (IIci ROM) running 7.5.5 Basilisk doesn't respond to command or option click at all. Option+Double Click to close the current finder window while opening a new one doesn't work. Command+Click & Drag a background window to move it without bring it to the front doesn't work.

On an emulated Quadra (Quadra 630 or 650 ROM) with running 8.1 command+click does seem to work, but option+click doesn't. (Control+click also works.) Incidentally Command+Option+Click DOES work on the Quadra ROMs. But only on System 7.5.5. On MacOS 8.1, pressing both together produces mostly non-working, sometimes sticky results where the option key activates but seems stuck down.

The build from 2011 seems to have these same issues.

The XQuartz build from July 2013 the physical command key seems to activate the emulated option key and the option key does nothing.

I am having a hard time finding a build that I have downloaded where the option key works properly.

I'll keep looking.

Edit: I tried the older Universal Binary for 10.4 and 10.5 (running on 10.8.5) from 4 Oct 2009 and the option key also doesn't work. I also tested the July 2013 SDL build on Mavericks 10.9 and 10.9.1. Same results as 10.8.5.

Any ideas?
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Option on Mac?

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Yes, I see now. The option key works for typing special characters and it works for various other key combinations and shortcuts, but it does not work with mouse clicks.

It does work in SheepShaver, though. Strange, because BasiliskII and SheepShaver share much of their code, I would expect especially at this level. Maybe one of the programmers that are are familiar with the source code can shed some light on this issue.
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Cat_7
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Re: Option on Mac?

Post by Cat_7 »

Might a key code file help?
It would also have sections specific for SDL and XQuartz builds, defining the key mappings.

Best,
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Option on Mac?

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Not sure if it is a key mapping issue. The option key is recognized correctly with typing or with using keyboard shortcuts in various combinations. It just does not work with mouse clicks. In fact, with the option key pressed, mouse clicks are not registered at all. The issue exists regardless whether I run BII with or without using the default BII keycodes file. (The same file is used with SheepShaver.)
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BlueBoy
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Re: Option on Mac?

Post by BlueBoy »

I tried enable the keycodes file. There was no change.

I found, however, this older thread here with google:

http://www.emaculation.com/forum/viewto ... 049#p33049

Ronald stated that with the option key held down a right click functions as a left click and that is still true. Option+right click of the Apple Menu shows "About the Finder...".

Odd.

Edit: I just tested and option+right click doesn't work with the IIci ROM running system 7.5.5 but does work with the Quadra 630 ROM.
Last edited by BlueBoy on Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Option on Mac?

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Ah, I remember now. Forgot all about it. I thought that the right-left mouse button reversal was solved a long time ago. As far as I remember it was a simple change of a couple of numbers in the source code.

(Strange that it does not affect SheepShaver.)
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BlueBoy
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Re: Option on Mac?

Post by BlueBoy »

So which build should I use where the problem is solved? It seems it is still present in the build in the builds from Oct 2011 and the builds from July 2013 from these threads:

BasiliskII builds for Mac OS X, links and downloads
Basilisk for OSX Mountain Lion and upwards with Appletalk!

Also I wonder why the IIci ROM can't use the option+right click...

Thanks for investigating this issue!
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Option on Mac?

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Well, maybe it was not solved after all. If it was, it should be solved in all builds in the last couple of years.

If you do not need built-in AppleTalk ability, the SDL build that includes the most recent recent changes in the GitHub cebix/macemu source is the one by vasi (april 2013) that can be found following the link in this post: http://www.emaculation.com/forum/viewto ... =20&t=7974
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BlueBoy
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Re: Option on Mac?

Post by BlueBoy »

Thanks Ronald! I downloaded vasi's build from Apr 2013. For the sake of discussion it still has the option key problem.
emendelson
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Re: Option on Mac?

Post by emendelson »

The option key certainly works in my build - I just tested it:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/271 ... kII-EM.zip

If it doesn't work in that build, then maybe something is wrong with the system that you're running inside Basilisk?

(FYI: In my build, you use Ctrl-Opt-F5 to capture/release the mouse and Ctrl-Opt-Return to toggle full-screen, not the keys used in other recent builds.)
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BlueBoy
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Re: Option on Mac?

Post by BlueBoy »

Hi emendelson!

I just tried your build and option-clicking and option-dragging doesn't work there either.

I don't know if there's anything special about my system that is messing this up. I have tried deleting the pram file for Basilisk II. The system disk I am using is a fresh install of System 7.5.5 for all Macintoshes. I tried booting Basilisk II with extensions off and it still is a problem.

The host machine is a US Early 2011 MacBook Pro running 10.8.5 (though I have tried 10.9 and 10.9.1 with the same issue.)

Incidentally I also have a Windows PC (Win 8.1 Pro 64-bit) running the 2013-Jun-05 build that does not have this issue using the same system boot disk image and rom/cpu/ram configuration. (The start menu opens whenever I release the option key [Windows Key] there, hehe.)

To me, that suggests something weird is going on with OS X and/or SDL and/or the Mac version of Basilisk II.

Thanks again for all the help!

For reference, here is my .basilisk_II_prefs file

Code: Select all

disk /Volumes/HD Data/Emulation/Macintosh/Disks/7.5.5 - System 7.5.5.dmg
extfs /Volumes/HD Data
screen win/1152/870
seriala <none>
serialb <none>
ether slirp
udptunnel false
udpport 6066
rom /Volumes/HD Data/Emulation/Macintosh/ROMS/Quadra 630.rom
bootdrive 0
bootdriver 0
ramsize 134217728
frameskip 1
modelid 14
cpu 4
fpu true
nocdrom false
nosound false
noclipconversion false
nogui false
jit true
jitfpu false
jitdebug false
jitcachesize 8192
jitlazyflush true
jitinline true
keyboardtype 5
keycodes false
mousewheelmode 1
mousewheellines 3
dsp /dev/dsp
mixer /dev/mixer
ignoresegv true
idlewait true
emendelson
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Re: Option on Mac?

Post by emendelson »

Apologies: my fault. I misunderstood what you were saying.

Yes, in my build, as in all recent builds, it seems you cannot use Option-Click on the title bar of the background application to bring it to the front and hide the current foreground application. And you cannot use Option-drag to make a copy of a file when you drag the file from one folder to another.

The option key does work in all recent builds for entering text, and I stupidly didn't take the trouble to see that this was what you were asking about.

If you want Option-click and Option-drag to work in System 7.5.5, then you'll need a Mini vMac build that emulates the Mac II, I think. I (carefully!) checked, and Option-click and Option-drag do work as expected in 7.5.5 running in a current custom build of mini vMac emulating the Mac II.

Again, apologies for wasting your time on a mistaken reply.
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BlueBoy
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Re: Option on Mac?

Post by BlueBoy »

I didn't waste any time. I was testing different configurations!

So is this a known issue with option+click? Should I stop worrying about it? :lol:

Thanks again!
emendelson
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Re: Option on Mac?

Post by emendelson »

BlueBoy wrote:So is this a known issue with option+click? Should I stop worrying about it?
I remember that I vaguely noticed that I couldn't option-click before, but I mistakenly thought it had something to do with 7.5.5, not Basilisk II. I don't know if it's a known problem.

I can't see anything obvious in the source code that should make this work with SheepShaver but not Basilisk. Maybe vasi can help??
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Option on Mac?

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

The problem is not that option-click or option-drag does not work in BasiliskII. The problem is that only a secondary (or right) click in the OSX host is interpreted in BasiliskII as a regular (or left) click that will work with the option key. So, if you need option-click or option-drag, use the secondary click. Of course it is a bug that should be corrected.

I do not recall what the exact problem was, and apparently still is. I seem to remember that a click with the second mouse button was interpreted as click with the first button and that a click on the first button was seen as a click with the third mouse button (usually the scroll wheel). Anyway, a mouse button mix-up. Strangely only in BasiliskII and not in SheepShaver.

And, yes, maybe vasi can help. He is one of the few programmers who still do work on the BasiliskII/SheepShaver code.
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BlueBoy
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Re: Option on Mac?

Post by BlueBoy »

Some more info & clarification:
  • On System 7.5.5:
    • Mac IIci ROM, 68030 w/ FPU - Neither Option+Click/Drag nor Command+Click/Drag work regardless of host mouse button used.
    • Quadra 630 ROM, 68040 - Option+Right Click/Drag acts like Option+Click/Drag. Command+Click/Drag works fine.
    On Mac OS 8.1
    • Quadra 630 ROM, 68040 - Option+Right Click/Drag acts like Option+Click/Drag. Command+Click/Drag works fine.
A workaround for these not working is to use the emulated systems' Stick Keys feature in the Easy Access control panel. With this enabled, pressing and releasing Option or Command will cause the key stick down and then a regular left click/drag is properly modified. You then have to press the modifier key twice more to turn off the modifier key.

Enabling Stick Keys in the host OS X doesn't work.

Edit: I have sent a PM to vasi asking for help.
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adespoton
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Re: Option on Mac?

Post by adespoton »

Thanks for keeping on top of this glitch :) And now it's documented for posterity :D
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