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 Post subject: emulation+
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:06 pm 
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http://www.transitive.com/

If it's real then the emulation game just got a lot more interesting.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:24 pm 
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I smell bullshit. And it's emminating from their website.

Transative Corporation wrote:
Integration FUSE. QuickTransit is integrated with the operating system of the target system and runs like any other application. Unlike static translators that translate an application's binary once before run time, QuickTransit translates instructions and operating system calls while an application is running. When a foreign application is started, the operating system recognizes that the application needs translation and automatically starts QuickTransit. Depending on the requirements for the integration, QuickTransit can be configured with a wide range of options, including the ability to build "bridges" between translated code and code running native on the target platform. This feature has been used, for example, to allow translated applications to call a native accelerated graphics library for the graphics chipset in the target platform, delivering higher quality and speed than other solutions. Integration options also provide for different optimization schedules and the ability to reconfigure the use of the translation code cache to better match performance to customer needs.


I can't help but be full of scepticism whilst reading this. First off: No demo or "technology Preview". Nothing mentioning release dates, or even anywhere to buy this miraculous product. Seems like another SoftMac PowerPC emulator to me. :?


Last edited by templest on Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:16 am 
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I emailed them, and I asked to borrow a copy for educational use. I don't know what to expect- probably "fuck off, kid" but let's see what they say.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:47 pm 
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My guess would be that this would not run OSX applications on x86. It looks like something that has been developed to run 'windowless' applications on other platforms.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:52 pm 
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We all know it smacks of bullshit

but

Quote:
QuickTransit for x86. Allows application binaries compiled for a MIPS(r), POWER(tm), PowerPC(tm) or mainframe processor to run on an x86-based computer. Application binaries compiled for other processors will be supported soon. Operating system call mapping from any Unix/Linux-like operating system or any mainframe operating system to any Unix/Linux-like operating system is supported.


http://www.transitive.com/products.htm


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:31 pm 
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I wouldn't be so quick to judge. It is well know that their product has been in development for a number of years, and they have a few larger investors.

Note that here this was stated:

"In demonstrations to press and analysts, the company has shown a graphically demanding game -- a Linux version of Quake III -- running on an Apple PowerBook."

We don't know what OS the power book was running, but its not beyond reason that it was OSX, seeing that OSX is a "unix like" OS.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:33 am 
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I just read an article on the german IT news site [url]computerbase.de[/url] that there are rumors about a partnership between Transitive and Microsoft regarding the downward-compatability of the upcoming XBOX2 which will be PPC powered, which is well-known speculation or has it be confirmed yet?
Anyway, this means that Microsoft takes Transitive technology serious enough to consider a co-operation.
Hopefully this will result in a PC product, too.
Seems like in a few years x86-PPC cross-platforming will not longer be a big matter, we'll see what all the projects like PearPC, Soft Pear etc. will produce in the future, along with the hardware development, such as Multicore CPU's and so on.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:48 pm 
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Ah, bonehead's post just knocked some sense into me. This isn't necessaraly "cross OS emulation", this is "cross platform" emulation.

Basically, binaries for PPC/Linux will run on Debian/x86. This is what I gather 'till this moment. If that's the case though, this isn't really that amazing. Companies that make apps for linux will most defently compile it for different architectures.

What I can see happening though, is that when real 64Bit-Exclusive apps start rolling around, this might be useful in that normal 32Bit PCs might be able to use them. Although, most people are upgrading to Athlon-64's already, so... :?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:05 am 
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The amazing part would be if they developed a special way to do it that runs at 80% efficiency.
Anyone who thinks that "powerpc emulation" will be too inefficient for practical use will probably be proven wrong someday- even if they have facts to back themselves up. It's happened with any new invention, time and time again in the past. Look at what this knowledgeable guy, Professor A. W. Bickerton, said in 1926:

"This foolish idea of space travel is an example of the absurd length to which vicious specialisation will carry scientists working in thought-tight compartments. Let us critically examine the proposal. For a projectile entirely to escape the gravitation of the earth, it needs a velocity of 7 miles a second. The thermal energy of a gramme of our most violent explosive- nitroglycerine -is less than 1,500 calories per gramme. Consequently, even had the explosive nothing to carry, it has only one-tenth of the energy necessary to escape the earth... Hence the proposition appears to be basically impossible"

Hell, he even convinced me.

My point is that new developments and ideas can be surprisingly much more better than the classical ways of solving a problem. Maybe Transitive's new product is a completely different way of "emulating" a powerpc processor.
Now here I'm being a bit bold cause I don't know this for sure: I read that the Quicktransit program resides in the hard drives onboard cache, and I'm not sure but it looks like it doesn't emulate a powerpc processor and all of it's functions but translates the program itself to work on the x86.

Anyways they actually replied to my email and here's what they said:

Quote:
Hi Dylan,

great to know that you think our software is cool, we also think it's very neat :-)

We are a technology company and only selling directly to Computer OEMs at the moment, so unfortunately we do not have a version which you can try out, otherwise we would have been happy to send you a trial version.

It's a great idea to play around with Unix at home. The easiest way is to start with Linux which runs very well on PCs. You could try WinLinux http://www.winlinux.net/ or Knoppix.

Our press release contains all available public information about our announced QuickTransit product family (http://www.transitive.com/news_quicktransit.htm) and our website has also more info on the underlying technology (http://www.transitive.com/technology.htm) , which you might find interesting, take a look.

We will update the news section on our website when we have new public information, so please check back to stay updated, I promise it will be interesting.
Frank

---
Frank Weigel - Field Solutions Lead Engineer
Transitive Corporation - www.transitive.com
frank@transitive.com - (408) 399 6611


It's a good sign that they actually answer their emails.

By the way, what does it take to qualify as an OEM? :D


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:09 pm 
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My wife used to work for a marine electronics company dealing with OEM sales. Her definition of an OEM is any manufacturer that has an annual turnover of US$1 Million or more...

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:20 pm 
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Just run into this page:
http://www.virtutech.com/products/simics.html
They say that it runs PowerPC 750 (G3) and PowerPC 7450 (G4) software.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:29 am 
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Man, that's old news. How'd you get 600 odd posts without knowing about Simics? :? Oh yeah, I get your point. It's probably the same type of thing.


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