I need [someone?] to merge OS X AppleDoubles for OS 9...

[rplacd]

I'm trying to get a bunch of zip files created in OS X (namely Glider PRO's More Houses 1 and 2) over into a SheepShaver OS 9 installation with resource forks fixed back on.

HFVExplorer claims to "detect" AppleDoubles, but it doesn't touch __MACOSX folders, nor detect anything if I slap the doubles next to their original files a la the Wikipedia article. Raw copy for data and resource fork looked interesting, but that just happens to overwrite the file entirely.

Google's led me to a mythical ZIP-JOINER that I can't find a link for, and SheepShaver (or OS 9?) doesn't seem to honor AFS_RESOURCE ADSes when mounting NTFS drives.

It would be nice if there *is* a way of merging the two forks in Windows, but at this point I'm pretty much run raw and I'd like to see if there's anyone out there with OS X that can unzip these files, make sure the AppleDouble folder gets merged back in, and reSIT it for OS9 - it's giving up, yes, but I couldn't care less at this point.

A thanks in advance if it's possible - the last few hours were the antithesis of fun for me.

[24bit]

Hello,
I can do the inflating/stuffing for you.
I have downloaded the files, but cant upload, because my poor upstream is buisy for the next hour or so.
For further file managing, you might consider setting up PearPC, which should handle OSX zip files.
Your files are here in Stuffit5 format:

More Houses Part 1: http://www.mediafire.com/?br9b7ra1bddh1pq
More Houses Part 2: http://www.mediafire.com/?dl38obr746j4jh1

[Cat_7]

Hi,

As an addition, have you downloaded the files inside Mac OS 9 and tried MacZip to unzip them in SheepShaver for Windows? There is a version 1.0.6 floating around on the internet: http://download.cnet.com/MacZip/3000-22 ... 25248.html

Best,
Cat_7

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

The MacOSX zip format will preserve resource forks and such, but only when again unzipped by an appropriate application in OSX.

I downloaded the zip files, unpacked them in MacOSX, transferred both folders to OS9 in SS, and archived them using DropStuff 6.0.1.

Stuffit Expander (version 6 or later needed?) should be able to decode and unstuff them in OS9. Possibly it can be done with HFVExplorer as well.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~ronaldpr/emaculat ... es.sit.hqx

[rplacd]

Thanks a lot for the quick replies - I took a die roll and ended up choosing the last link. Worked perfectly. If I had Calhoun's email I'd get him to host these instead.

@ Cat7 - it does unzip the file, but it doesn't recognize the __MACOSX folder as an AppleDouble source.

[Cat_7]

Yes, with hindsight that was to be expected. But you got it sorted, that's what counts.

Best,
Cat_7

[Old-School-BBSer]

Has anyone ever found a solution to this problem? So many years have gone by, and yet it still persists. There are certain files I want to add to my BBS in SheepShaver, but I can't, because of this AppleDoubles issue. I was hopeful that the DropStuff/Stuffit Expander solution would work, but as has already been noted, it doesn't. Stuffing and then expanding still produces the "__MACOSX" folder. Regarding the so-called "ZIP-JOINER!" app, the OP is right. I have never been able to find it anywhere either.

[adespoton]

Sounds like we need a new AppleDouble joiner tool for OS 9... I'll put out a request on Macintosh Garden and see if any Classic Coders are up to the challenge

[adespoton]

Has anyone ever found a solution to this problem? So many years have gone by, and yet it still persists. There are certain files I want to add to my BBS in SheepShaver, but I can't, because of this AppleDoubles issue. I was hopeful that the DropStuff/Stuffit Expander solution would work, but as has already been noted, it doesn't. Stuffing and then expanding still produces the "__MACOSX" folder. Regarding the so-called "ZIP-JOINER!" app, the OP is right. I have never been able to find it anywhere either.

I just remembered why I've never bothered with this as I was writing up a request

The closest thing I know of is http://www.gryphel.org/c/sw/archive/miniunzp/index.html -- but that assumes the zip file still exists.

That made me realize though: you could take the unzipped folder contents and zip them back up again and use this. MiniUnZp should work on everything from System 6 onwards, and can properly restore files compressed in OS X zip archives. You could probably even take other AppleDouble files, package them up in the OS X format, zip on WIndows or Linux (or anything else), and have MiniUnZp join the pieces together on classic Mac OS.

[adespoton]

...and Macintosh Garden delivered the goods: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/decode-applefile-v11 - There's an app for that

[Old-School-BBSer]

Adespoton, thank you very much for this! So there has actually been a little known solution to this problem for a number of years now.

I just downloaded both files, and I am trying to figure out how to use Decode Applefile 1.1. I read the developers ReadMe file, but I am stilll a little confused, regarding exactly how to use his app in Mac OS 9.2.2.

To test it out, I just unzipped a copy of Basilisk in my Mac OS 9 environment, using StuffIt Expander. This, of course produced a Basilisk folder -- which contains two apps called Basilisk with the .app file extension, as well as the troublesome __MACOSX folder.

So, when he says to "Select the encoded file (This is the "%" file)", is he talking about the zipped archive, or one of the unzipped Basilisk apps?

And when he says "Select the data file to be appended. (This is the "non-%" file.), is he talking about the __MACOSX folder? In other words, I have no idea what he means by the % symbol.

Can you help this old, slow-of-mind person? Thanks, as always.

[adespoton]

Adespoton, thank you very much for this! So there has actually been a little known solution to this problem for a number of years now.

I just downloaded both files, and I am trying to figure out how to use Decode Applefile 1.1. I read the developers ReadMe file, but I am stilll a little confused, regarding exactly how to use his app in Mac OS 9.2.2.

To test it out, I just unzipped a copy of Basilisk in my Mac OS 9 environment, using StuffIt Expander. This, of course produced a Basilisk folder -- which contains two apps called Basilisk with the .app file extension, as well as the troublesome __MACOSX folder.

So, when he says to "Select the encoded file (This is the "%" file)", is he talking about the zipped archive, or one of the unzipped Basilisk apps?

And when he says "Select the data file to be appended. (This is the "non-%" file.), is he talking about the __MACOSX folder? In other words, I have no idea what he means by the % symbol.

Can you help this old, slow-of-mind person? Thanks, as always.

Read the page where you downloaded the app -- it explains how the % and non-% maps to OS X zips -- in A/UX, AppleDouble is represented with the resource forks having a % on them. So non-% is the data file, which is the main file in your folder. The resource fork has the same name but is in __MACOSX and usually starts with a ._

[Old-School-BBSer]

Thanks for the additional info.

[emendelson]

Excellent find! And here is the full information page - it turns out that the app is scriptable:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150309103 ... eFile.html

And here's a page of other stuff that may be useful too:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150309101 ... stuff.html

[adespoton]

Excellent find! And here is the full information page - it turns out that the app is scriptable:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150309103 ... eFile.html

And here's a page of other stuff that may be useful too:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150309101 ... stuff.html

And THAT is a great find, EMendelson! Since you're the local AppleScript wizard, any chance you could write up a droplet that recognizes different AppleDouble formats and can automagically combine them?

[Old-School-BBSer]

Ha! A lot of geeky old stuff on that page. I grabbed the various versions of Mail Drop to add to my small group of ancient email clients.

But what I would REALLY like to find -- probably an impossibility -- are some old web browsers which just not only still launch in Mac OS 9.2.2 or earlier, but which ALSO can still actually connect to websites. The ones I have now -- Classilla, Firefox, Netscape and Mozilla -- all fail to do this, because they no longer meet the minimum security requirements for modern websites, it seems. So, they are basically useless toys ..... unless I am just missing something. See. I'm humble about it.

[adespoton]

Ha! A lot of geeky old stuff on that page. I grabbed the various versions of Mail Drop to add to my small group of ancient email clients.

But what I would REALLY like to find -- probably an impossibility -- are some old web browsers which just not only still launch in Mac OS 9.2.2 or earlier, but which ALSO can still actually connect to websites. The ones I have now -- Classilla, Firefox, Netscape and Mozilla -- all fail to do this, because they no longer meet the minimum security requirements for modern websites, it seems. So, they are basically useless toys ..... unless I am just missing something. See. I'm humble about it.

What you need is Classilla running with the Crypto Ancienne proxy (https://github.com/classilla/cryanc, https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threa ... ngs.78865/).

It is tested on NeXTSTEP 3.3, Rhapsody 5.6, Mac OS X, Linux, NetBSD, AIX 4+ (4.1.5 and 6.1 specifically), Power MachTen 4.1.4 and A/UX 3.1.

So, you have options -- you can run it on your host system and set up the host as a web proxy for Classilla on the guest, or you can install Power MachTen 4.1.4 on the guest system and run it inside that. Or, you can move from Mac OS 9 to something like A/UX 3.1.1 on qemu-system-m68k and run all your server stuff on top of that, along with running CA alongside Classilla.

Of course, for all of these, you have to jump to the command line to set up the proxy server, but it seems to be reasonably well documented.

[Old-School-BBSer]

I do have Classilla, and I have read about that approach before. However, to do all of that just to play with an old web browser? Hard pass.

[emendelson]

And THAT is a great find, EMendelson! Since you're the local AppleScript wizard, any chance you could write up a droplet that recognizes different AppleDouble formats and can automagically combine them?

Hmmm... that should be possible - Test for the filenames and act accordingly. I know nothing about AppleDouble formats - are all of them described on that linked information page?

[adespoton]

And THAT is a great find, EMendelson! Since you're the local AppleScript wizard, any chance you could write up a droplet that recognizes different AppleDouble formats and can automagically combine them?

Hmmm... that should be possible - Test for the filenames and act accordingly. I know nothing about AppleDouble formats - are all of them described on that linked information page?

I've lost track, to be honest. There's the A/UX style (file [data] + %file [resource]), the OS X way (file [data] + ._file [resource]), the OS X Zip way (file [data] + __MACOSX/._file [resource]), and I can't remember what BII/SS shared folders and HFSExplorer do.

[emendelson]

I've lost track, to be honest. There's the A/UX style (file [data] + %file [resource]), the OS X way (file [data] + ._file [resource]), the OS X Zip way (file [data] + __MACOSX/._file [resource]), and I can't remember what BII/SS shared folders and HFSExplorer do.

Can anyone post a sample set of files to work with?

[adespoton]

I've lost track, to be honest. There's the A/UX style (file [data] + %file [resource]), the OS X way (file [data] + ._file [resource]), the OS X Zip way (file [data] + __MACOSX/._file [resource]), and I can't remember what BII/SS shared folders and HFSExplorer do.

Can anyone post a sample set of files to work with?

Easiest way to generate them is to extract a classic app from a .sit file on macOS, then zip it back up using the Finder's Archive contextual menu. Then use the terminal to run unzip on the zipped file. This will give you the OS X Zip style. To change to the other styles, just take the ._file and move it adjacent (for WebDAV/ExFAT/etc.), and then rename the file from ._file to %file for the A/UX format. For BII/SS, the best way is to run the emulator on Windows and copy an application to the shared folder to see what it does. For HFSExplorer, same thing -- take an existing image and attempt to extract an application to the host system and see how it presents it.

This can be done by anyone (doesn't have to be you) -- I'm not really set up to do it right now myself (I spent years tweaking all my systems to handle resource forks so they wouldn't split files into apple double).

[emendelson]

So I used Stuffit on Windows to extract an app from a .sit file into AppleDouble format, but when I tried to recombine the two files with Decode AppleFile 1.1, the app crashed in both SheepShaver (Mac OS9.0.4) and BasiliskiI (7.6.1). Has anyone used it successfully?

[emendelson]

And THAT is a great find, EMendelson! Since you're the local AppleScript wizard, any chance you could write up a droplet that recognizes different AppleDouble formats and can automagically combine them?

EDIT: Revised because the AppleScript app now lets you drop a file on it.

Well, nothing like a challenge. Here is a ZIP archive that contains the DecodeAppleFile 1.1 app and an AppleScript app that uses it to recombine the two parts of an AppleDouble file. (Also a sample AppleDouble file to experiment with.)

https://mendelson.org/DecodeAppleDouble.zip

Move the contents of the archive to a SheepShaver setup.

Then either (1) run the AppleScript; if it asks, tell it where to find DecodeAppleFile 1.1, and then choose the two parts of the AppleDouble at the prompts

or (2) drop the data fork part of an AppleDouble file (the part that does NOT begin with "%_" or "._") on the applet; if all goes well (and if the encoded part is present in the same folder), the applet will create a decoded file in the same folder. If it can't find the encoded part, it will prompt you. The first time you run it, it may ask you where to find DecodeAppleFile 1.1.

The DecodeAppleFile 1.1 app seems to be fairly demanding about the format of the encoded file. If the formats aren't exactly right, SheepShaver will hang.

Don't even ask me about my adventures trying to create an AppleDouble file to experiment with. I finally remembered that macOS stores the resource fork of an old Mac file as an extended attribute, as you can see by running the command "ls -la@" - which shows the resource fork listed as an extended attribute, and not part of the size of the file itself. (The Finder's Get Info shows the size of the file and its extended attributes combined, so Get Info and the "ls" command show different results.") EDIT: You can also see the resource fork in macOS by entering this in the terminal (and you can use other shell commands to manipulate the fork):

Code: Select all

ls -l NameOfOldFile/..namedfork/rsrc

To create an AppleDouble, copy the original file to an HFS-formatted disk (for example on a USB stick), and run the built-in macOS command SplitForks on the file to save the resource fork as a separate file. However, if you want to experiment, you amy need to strip the extended attribute from the original file by running "xattr -rc" on that original file. This, finally, will produce a real AppleDouble pair of files, one named SomeFile and the other named ._SomeFile

For convenience and reliability, I renamed "._SomeFile" to "%_SomeFile" so that it would be visible, and follow the A/UX AppleDouble filename convention.

This script comes with no support. If the AppleScript doesn't work on your system, please feel free to edit it yourself. I don't think I'll ever have any real use for this app, and wrote the script only because the challenge sounded enjoyable. It was in fact more of a challenge than I expected, because the documentation of the DecodeAppleFile 1.1 app is minimal, and the sample AppleScript code provided there needed to be completely rewritten in order to create a working script that lets you choose the file you want to decode.

[adespoton]

And THAT is a great find, EMendelson! Since you're the local AppleScript wizard, any chance you could write up a droplet that recognizes different AppleDouble formats and can automagically combine them?

EDIT: Revised because the AppleScript app now lets you drop a file on it.

Well, nothing like a challenge. Here is a ZIP archive that contains the DecodeAppleFile 1.1 app and an AppleScript app that uses it to recombine the two parts of an AppleDouble file. (Also a sample AppleDouble file to experiment with.)

https://mendelson.org/DecodeAppleDouble.zip

Move the contents of the archive to a SheepShaver setup.

Then either (1) run the AppleScript; if it asks, tell it where to find DecodeAppleFile 1.1, and then choose the two parts of the AppleDouble at the prompts

or (2) drop the data fork part of an AppleDouble file (the part that does NOT begin with "%_" or "._") on the applet; if all goes well (and if the encoded part is present in the same folder), the applet will create a decoded file in the same folder. If it can't find the encoded part, it will prompt you. The first time you run it, it may ask you where to find DecodeAppleFile 1.1.

The DecodeAppleFile 1.1 app seems to be fairly demanding about the format of the encoded file. If the formats aren't exactly right, SheepShaver will hang.

Don't even ask me about my adventures trying to create an AppleDouble file to experiment with. I finally remembered that macOS stores the resource fork of an old Mac file as an extended attribute, as you can see by running the command "ls -la@" - which shows the resource fork listed as an extended attribute, and not part of the size of the file itself. (The Finder's Get Info shows the size of the file and its extended attributes combined, so Get Info and the "ls" command show different results.") EDIT: You can also see the resource fork in macOS by entering this in the terminal (and you can use other shell commands to manipulate the fork):

Code: Select all

ls -l NameOfOldFile/..namedfork/rsrc

To create an AppleDouble, copy the original file to an HFS-formatted disk (for example on a USB stick), and run the built-in macOS command SplitForks on the file to save the resource fork as a separate file. However, if you want to experiment, you amy need to strip the extended attribute from the original file by running "xattr -rc" on that original file. This, finally, will produce a real AppleDouble pair of files, one named SomeFile and the other named ._SomeFile

For convenience and reliability, I renamed "._SomeFile" to "%_SomeFile" so that it would be visible, and follow the A/UX AppleDouble filename convention.

This script comes with no support. If the AppleScript doesn't work on your system, please feel free to edit it yourself. I don't think I'll ever have any real use for this app, and wrote the script only because the challenge sounded enjoyable. It was in fact more of a challenge than I expected, because the documentation of the DecodeAppleFile 1.1 app is minimal, and the sample AppleScript code provided there needed to be completely rewritten in order to create a working script that lets you choose the file you want to decode.

Excellent! I knew you were up for the challenge

One question: I notice you're using '%_' -- in A/UX, it just prefixes with '%' and no underscore. Does the script handle this?