Capitalizing on the previous post, I would say you can try to:

-Use Disk Utility in OSX to create a new hard disk image of the same size as your broken Mac OS9.dsk disk image. In the top menu choose New Image and set a name (backup.dmg). Select your SheepShaver folder for it to be created in. In the lower part of the screen, again give the disk a name "Backup" and under Format choose "Mac OS Extended" (not Mac OS Extended (Journalled)). Don't change any of the other settings. Click create and the image will be created.

-Start SheepShaver with your CD only. Go to the preferences editor and add the new disk image (Backup.dmg) and your fautly disk image (Mac OS9.dsk) to the volumes list. Shut SheepShaver down.
-Restart SheepShaver from the CD again. You should see the new disk "Backup" on your desktop and the Mac OS 9 one. Open the Mac OS 9 disk and copy all files you need to backup to the Backup disk.
-After you shut down SheepShaver you can open the new backup.dmg disk image in OSX and move the files to safety in OSX.

What happens next is up to you. You can start SheepShaver with the CD again and try to use Disk First Aid (in the Utilties folder on the CD) to repair the Mac OS9 disk. Or you can install a new copy of Mac OS 9 on the old disk image. Or try the repair suggestions give above.

Good luck,
Cat_7

Please everybody, do not interfere with what I am trying to do. I was planning a careful step-by-step help for 'Art Evans' to first try and repair the volume on the disk image and, if that does not work, to try rescuing as many files as possible from the image volume. And, of course, anything should be done with a copy of the image file. Art Evans, please do not experiment with the original image file, any further action could make things worse, wait for my instructions.

No, I was referring to the format of the volume on the disk image. When you set up SheepShaver, you created the "OS9.dsk" volume and at startup from a MacOS System CD you were asked to initialize the volume. In the dialog you could then choose between "Mac OS Standard" and "Mac OS Extended". "Mac OS Standard" is the default setting. For MacOS 8.1 and later, "Mac OS Extended" is the preferred setting. Our SheepShaver MacOSX setup manual advises to choose "Mac OS Extended" for those MacOS versions.

My question was: Do you know/remember if at setup the volume was initialized in "Mac OS Extended" format?

Yes, but the intention is to repair the file system on the disk image volume, not the disk image file.

Well, we can proceed and we will be able to see in Disk Utility which is the disk image volume's format.

1. In the Finder make a copy of the OS9.dsk file. (As I wrote above, we will use only copies of the file to be sure we will not make things worse in the original file.)

2. Change the .dsk extension to .dmg. If you do that directly in the Finder, you may end up with a file "OS9.dmg.dsk" with the .dsk extension being hidden. Best change the file name in Finder Info (select the file and hit cmd-I) to be sure the name is now indeed "OS9.dmg".

3. Double-click OS9.dmg and, if the file system on the volume is not to much damaged, the volume will mount in MacOSX like any other .dmg image file.

If the mounted image opens in a Finder window, close that window.

(If the volume does not mount, the damage is probably too serious for this procedure, but we can still try.)

4. Launch Disk Utility.

If the image volume did not mount under 3. by double clicking, try to use Open Disk Image... from the file menu to open the .dmg copy.

When the image volume is mounted, you see in the left column in Disk Utility the image file and below it the mounted volume. Select the mounted volume. Make sure you select the volume, not the image file!

5. With the volume selected, you can see the volume format at the bottom of the Disk Utility window.

If the format is Mac OS Standard, at the right you will see the 'Verify Disk" button activated, if the format is Mac OS Extended you will see both "Verify Disk" and "Repair Disk" buttons activated.

6. Click "Verify Disk" or, if available, "Repair Disk" and see what happens and which message you get.

7. When you could use "Repair Disk" and if the message is that repairs have been made, you should repeat repairing, again and again until either the message is "The volume xxxxx appears to be OK" or the message is that Disk Utility cannot repair the disk.

8. When ready, click "Eject" in Disk Utility's toolbar and report back here how far you got and what happened.

That was fascinating, and I tried it, and your instructions worked. BUT! It didn't help.

I have 2 images in my SS folder
Mac OS9.dsk the virtual HD of the emulated system
Extra Data.dsk some extra data that I created for some reason
After following your instructions carefully, I created Mac OS9.dmg and tried to open it. It did, with no errors. I was ecstatic!

Then I looked at what was there. It's apparently an exact copy of what I had in Extra Data, maybe 30mb. There's no sign of the operating system and such.

So, I tried the same procedure with 'Extra Data.dsk' and tried to open it. It could not be opened because "no mountable file systems'.

I have various older copies of Mac OS9.dsk lying around and tried your procedure on them -- same results.

I hope you have some more thoughts. You've been very patient and helpful and I truly appreciate your effort.

Art Evans

My instructions were to try and check and if possible repair the volumes using Disk Utility, NOT to inspect the content from within MacOSX. I even told to close the window if the volume would open in a window when mounted.

Now, if 'Mac OS9.dsk' does not contain the system, it must have been 'Extra Data.dsk' that contained the system. Could you have confused the two at set up and gave the volumes the wrong name with initialization? The volumes will appear on the SheepShaver desktop with the name you gave them with initialization, not with the name of the image file. What is the name of the mounted volume from the 'Mac OS9.dmg' file?

Did you try to open 'Extra Data.dmg' from within Disk Utility as I described under 4. ?

I don't know where you live, but apparently there is a considerable time difference between us. It is almost midnight here and I will go to bed now. More tomorrow.

Well, when I double-clicked on Mac OS9.dmg in step 3 it opened, and of course I looked at it. I immediately saw that it contained the files from Extra Data, and nothing else. I did in fact try verify it in Disk Utility and found no errors, not surprising after I had looked at some of the files.



As I said, I tried steps 1 to 3 on 'Extra Data.dsk' and received the error message 'no mountable file systems' in step 3.

I just saw your next post. I live in eastern United States, Pittsburgh Pennsylvania, 5 hours earlier than GMT. I'll check again in the morning.

Art Evans

Good. But the fact that the volume is mounted and that you can see the files, does not necessarily mean that there cannot be file system corruption on the volume.


Please read what I write, try to understand what I write, and answer my questions. Again:

- Could you have confused the two at set up and gave the volumes the wrong name with initialization?
(That could happen when you create both at the same while setting up SheepShaver.)

- What is the name of the mounted volume from the 'Mac OS9.dmg' file?
(Mount the volume again and look at the name of the mounted volume.)

- Did you try to open 'Extra Data.dmg' from within Disk Utility as I described under 4. ?
(The first line in step 4. tells you what to try if the volume could not be mounted in step 3.)


Edit: That is 6 hours earlier than here in Amsterdam.

It's possible of course but I doubt it. When I was working in SheepShaver the file system disk in the upper right-hand corner of the screen was Mac OS9 and it contained the System Folder and most of my applications and data. Extra Data lower on the right side of the screen, I think below Unix, contained extra data. It's this extra data that showed up yesterday in Mac OS9.dmg. I have no idea how it got there.


The name is 'Extra Data'.


Yes, I did before and I just did. Volume 'Extra Data' appears.

Because I've been doing much experimentation, I just deleted all images that I had created. I then made a fresh copy of 'Mac OS9.dsk' from my SheepShaver folder and put the copy in a Temp folder I created for the purpose. I renamed the copy to .dmg and double-clicked it, as in step 3. 2 things happened: Volume 'Extra Data' appeared on my desk top and a new finder window appeared showing the files I had in Extra Data under SheepShaver.

Since the mounted in step 3 the first step in 4 was irrelevant. The list of disk images in Disk Utility now includes 'Mac OS9.dmg' and the file below it is volume 'Extra Data'. The volume format is 'Mac OS Standard'. If I hover the cursor over the volume I see that Extra Data is read only. Verify Disk is activated and Repair Disk is not.

I clicked 'Verify Disk' and got the report, "The volume Extra Data' appears OK."

I think I did all of this yesterday, but in response to your last note I did it all over again on a fresh copy of Mac OS9.dsk, writing in this note as I did each step.

It's 9:00 here and I have an appointment. I'll be back online in a few hours and check for a response.

Art Evans

Exactly. You must have confused both disk images during SheepShaver setup. When you are asked to initialize and name the volumes you cannot see which volume a name is asked for, only the size may be an indication about which is which. You named the volume on the Mac OS9 image "Extra Data" and you named the volume on the Extra Data image "Mac OS9". The volume "Mac OS9" on the desktop in SheepShaver was in fact on the Extra Data.dsk image and the volume "Extra Data" on the desktop was in fact on the Mac OS9.dsk image.

The volume Extra Data on the Mac OS9 disk image we know now to be Mac OS Standard and OK.

However, there are serious problems on the Extra Data image, which contains the system and, as I understand, your most important other files.

I asked to do this with the "Extra Data.dmg" image, not with the "Mac OS9.dmg" image with the "Extra Data' volume on it. Yesterday you said that the Extra Data.dmg could not be mounted:
Now I asked you if you could instead 'open' the Extra Data.dmg image file (which should mount it) using Open Disk Image... from the File menu in Disk Utility, as I mentioned in step 4.

I will now follow your instructions and report in this note after each step.

I made a copy of 'Extra Data.dsk' in a temp file, and then changed the copy to .dmg.

I double-clicked 'Extra Data.dmg'. The effect was a warning message window:
no mountable file systems

With Extra Data,dmg selected in Finder I clicked on File:Open. The same message window appeared.

Now I depart from your instructions, as they don't deal with my symptom. I opened Disk Warrior and then Tech Tool, but in neither does Extra Data,dmg appear in the list of volumes. Also, neither of these tools has a File:Open menu item.

Disk Disk Utilities does have a File:Open menu item, so I tried to open Extra Data.dmg. I got this error message:
Unable to attach "Extra Data.dmg" (no mountable file systems)

In departing from your instructions I did nothing that changed anything.

Art Evans

Not sure what you mean with "in a temp file". Didn't you simply make a Finder copy of the image file?

Although you seem to think that here you departed from my instructions, that is exactly what I asked you to do, use Open Disk Image... from the File menu in Disk Utility.

DiskWarrior has in its File menu an item "Rebuild Disk Image...". Use it and choose the "Extra Data.dmg" file to see if DiskWarrior can handle this image file.

Oops -- my error. I meant temp folder.



I tried it, and after about 30 seconds Disk Warrior reported an internal error. I guess the file is so corrupted that it couldn't deal with it.

I could find no similar feature in Tech Tool, either in the menu bar or in its manual.

Art Evans

I am afraid that there is little chance of retrieving what is/was on that volume. Any file rescue software that I know, needs an actual volume that can be accessed.

We can try and see if it will mount in MacOS while booting SheepShaver from a different disk, like from your 8.6 system disk, but I really do not expect it will.

Make yet another copy, change the name of the copy (for instance "Extra Data2.dsk) to discern it from the original, and place it the SheepShaver folder. Launch SheepShaver, add this copy to the volumes list as only volume in the list, save the change, and quit SheepShaver. Mount the 8.6 CD in MacOSX and launch SheepShaver. Does the "Mac OS9" volume appear on the desktop?

It didn't work -- all that showed up in SS was Mac OS 8.5 (the CD) and Unix.

My old laptop is still running Tiger and Classic. Is there anything I might try over there?

Art Evans

Nothing I can think of. Sorry. Even DiskWarrior cannot access the volume on the image. Strange thing is, though, that apparently you are not asked to initialize an "unreadable disk" during startup in SheepShaver. What size is the image file?

The file is 523.4 mb.

I'm truly grateful for all of the time you have devoted to my problem. Finding Extra Data does me a lot of good as all of my Hypercard stacks are there, and I did a lot of work on them under SheepShaver. Lost are my Journal entries for about 2 weeks, annoying. Other stuff is gone too.

The applications can all be reloaded, a time consuming and mindless operation. Most have preferences that have to be changed.

The really annoying thing for me is that I did no backups for a while, and usually I do them regularly. (I'm doing them now -- sometimes I learn slowly but I do learn.) I bought a new iMac a while ago to replace my old G4 which ran Classic, and I've been putting a lot of time into moving things over, changing them an needed for the new environment, and specially working on SheepShaver. I spent so much effort on that chore that I didn't get around to restarting my backup process. Sigh...

Again, I thank you for all of the time you've spent helping someone whom you don't know. If you get any new ideas I'll be glad to hear them.

Art Evans

You're welcome. For me, I also like the challenge to try and find a solution.

Do you feel comfortable using the command line? I wonder what could be done with hdiutil.

I used to be moderately comfortable with Unix, until a job ended in about 1990 and I stopped using it. Then I consulted for a while until I retired, in about 1998. Some time after that I threw away all of my Unix documentation, since I saw no possible use for it and I was down-sizing. Then Apple came up with OSX. Hah!

So, I've forgotten most of the Unix arcana I once knew.

I just did a 'man hdiutil'. It looks as if that command might be useful, but I can't imagine figuring out how to use it. Not clear to me is whether it's strictly a Unix concept or one specific to OSX. If the former I'm sure I can find among my friends here in Pittsburgh someone who could help me; if the latter finding an expert would be harder. I'll look into it, and if I get any success I'll let you know.

Another item: I did in fact reverse the 2 images Mac OS9 and Extra Data, as you had suggested. I thought the first one shown in the preference pane would be the virtual HD, but that wasn't the case when I just started over.

Art

Well, you may not have realized this, but MacOSX is in fact a Unix OS. The very elaborate graphical interface that is built on top of it makes accessing the Unix base superfluous for most purposes and most users will never need to be aware of the Unix underpinnings.

With early MacOSX versions Apple didn't bother to get a UNIX certification because there were too many deviations from Unix inherited from Steve Jobs' NeXTSTEP/OPENSTEP OS and too many special provisions to enable the transition from MacOS on PCC to finally MacOSX on Intel, but since version 10.5 (Leopard), MacOSX is certified UNIX 03.

Important to realize when working in the command line interface with classic MacOS files and early MacOSX files, is that resource fork and data fork of those files (in fact two files acting in MacOS/MacOSX as one single file) must be kept linked together. Where applicable, special commands were designed for working with such older Mac files. That issue does not exist anymore with modern MacOSX files. Modern MacOSX files only have a data fork and you are probably aware of the fact that an application.app is not a file but a special directory. That is now also true for newer generations of some Mac document formats.

See:

Mac OS X Leopard receives UNIX 03 certification

Mac OS X UNIX Tutorial for Beginners

I am no Unix specialist. I only learned myself a few tricks. I do use Terminal occasionally to do something that cannot be done easily in the GUI, and I used Terminal to build a couple of SheepShaver and BasiliskII builds that are posted here in E-Maculation forum.

Nice thing to know about the Terminal application: It supports entering paths by drag and drop of files or folders from the Finder. Type "cd " drag the folder into the Terminal window, hit enter, and you are there.

And BTW: Check out Bwana, a very convenient way to read the man pages in your web browser: http://www.bruji.com/bwana/


Now about your damaged disk image. Searching the web I found this possible way to get the image mounted. When we succeed in mounting the volume, it can probably be accessed by DiskWarrior.

- Again make a copy of the image file and change the extension to .dmg

- Launch Terminal

- Type:

- Add a space (!), drag the image file into Terminal window to enter the path to the file, and hit enter

- If successful (hopefully), enter:

- Find in the list the image (now probably by its volume name) and note the identifier, which is diskN, where N is a number.

- Enter: (replacing N by the number found above).

- If Terminal reports: "Volume(s) mounted successfully" (which will probably not be evident in the Finder), you can launch DiskWarrior. In DiskWarrior main window it should be possible to choose from the popup menu the image volume to be rebuild.

Edit: If successful, DiskWarrior will again mount the volume. This time it will be visible in the Finder. Unmount it before using it again in SheepShaver.

Thanks for that reply. I've been busy since Friday afternoon and probably will be until Monday afternoon and so won't try your suggestion yet. I'm looking forward to doing so, but I don't want to start till I have plenty of time. In the mean time a few comments:

I've long been aware of OSX's relationship to Unix -- which I was so annoyed with my earlier decision to discard all of my Unix documentation. I've looked at the Mac OSX Unix Tutorial you pointed out, and it looks like it will help me a lot -- thanks.

More later.

Art

I created an AppleScript Application that performs these steps (except for the part that runs DiskWarrior) automatically when you drop a disk image file on the Application. See:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7400&p=41417#p41417

Hey folks, why does Mac OS X allows SS to use memory that doesn't belong to it? Is memory protection a SS problem?

What do you mean?