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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:35 am 
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Space Cadet

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Hi, I just downloaded SheepShaver and I have OS 8.5 on a CD, and I downloaded the 8.6 upgrade. I'm running an Intel iMac with a 2GHz Core Duo and 2GB RAM... How well will this work on my machine, and how exactly do I get OS 8 installed? I have very-little-to-no knowledge of anything backend.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:33 am 
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Have you done any research yourself? Reading forums? Reading Help and FAQ pages?
Here is a edited version of earlier postings by me in these forums.


First we we see to it that we have all we need.

1. The system CD
Before we start, it is important to make sure that the MacOS 8.5 system CD is a universal system install CD that can install the system on all Mac models that can run MacOS 8.5. A CD that was originally supplied with a new Mac can install only on the model it was supplied with and can not be used with SheepShaver.
SheepShaver can be used with Mac OS versions 8.5, 8.6, 9.0 and 9.0.4.

2. SheepShaver application
After expanding the downloaded archive, rename the folder to simply "SheepShaver" and place it into your Home folder. It can be placed anywhere you like, but having the SheepShaver folder in your Home folder will keep the paths short, which helps to keep configuring SheepShaver simple.

Apart from the documentation there are the "SheepShaver" and "SheepShaverGUI" applications in the folder.

What else do we need?

3. A ROM file.
Insert the MacOS system disk and open it. On the CD there will be a System folder and in that folder you will find a file "MAC OS ROM". Copy that file to your SheepShaver folder.

There are reports that the "MAC OS ROM" file from a 8.5 CD does not work with SheepShaver and it does not work for me. So you would need to get hold of another ROM file, one from another MacOS CD, or one from a PCI PowerMac, or one extracted from the "Mac OS ROM Update 1.0" or from the Mac OS 8.6 update. To extract the ROM file from the Mac OS ROM Update or from the Mac OS 8.6 update you will need "TomeViewer" running in MacOS or Classic under MacOSX. (Do you have access to a older Mac that can use MacOS or Classic in MacOSX?)
See also:
SheepShaver FAQ: http://www.gibix.net/dokuwiki/en:projec ... r:help:faq
About Mac OS ROM Update: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=60408
Extracting ROM file: http://www.open.ou.nl/hsp/Engels/SheepS ... ow_to.html
TomeViewer: http://macupdate.com/info.php/id/15295

4. A "shared" folder
Create in your SheepShaver folder a new folder and name it "shared". (It can be in a different location, but I am trying to make this a s simple as possible.)


Now we can proceed to configuring the prefs and creating a disk image that will serve as the Mac OS harddisk.

Launch "SheepShaverGUI". I will describe each tab and what to do in it. You can ignore items that I do not mention.

1. Volumes
- In the box after "Unix Root" you will need to enter the path to the shared folder in your SheepShaver folder. If the shared folder is inside the SheepShaver folder inside your Home folder, that path will look like this:
/Users/yourname/SheepShaver/shared
Take care to enter the path correctly, "yourname" should of course be replaced by the name of your Home folder.

- We need to create the disk image for your virtual Mac.
Click "Create...". You will find a navigation dialog that looks different to what you are used to. At the left you see the directories (folders), at the right you see the files that are inside the open directory. You can also see all the directories and files that are normally hidden.

Navigate to your SheepShaver folder by double-clicking "Users/", than double-clicking your Home folder and than double-clicking "SheepShaver/".
Above the text box at the bottom, you will now see the line:
Selection: /Users/yourname/SheepShaver

Enter the size in MB for your harddisk image. Depending on the available space on your actual hardware disk and on the intended use of your MacOS virtual Mac, I suggest you choose to make it 500 or 1000.

Enter a name for the harddisk image file, for instance "MacOS8HD.dmg".

Click "OK".

If everything has gone well, you will now see the path to the newly created file in the box at the top of the Volumes tab.

2. Graphics/Sound
Here you will set your window properties, use the drop-down menus:

Video Type: Window
Window Refresh Rate: 15 Hz (You can try higher refresh rates later)
Width/Height 800/600 or 1024/768

(The Width and Height must be smaller than the resolution of your screen.)

3. Serial/Network
In the third box (Ethernet interface) use the drop-down menu (the triangle) to enter "slirp" in the box.

5. Memory/Misc
In the first box, use the drop-down menu to enter a value for the memory to be used by your virtual Mac. It should of course be less than the actual hardware memory available on your iMac. 128 or 256 will be plenty to run MacOS 8.5.

In the second box you need to browse to your ROM file (or you can type the path in the box: /Users/yourname/SheepShaver/Mac OS ROM)


Now we must proceed, launch SheepShaver and install MacOS, if you quit SheepShaverGUI now without launching SheepShaver, you will loose the settings.

1. Insert the MacOS 8.5 system CD and wait till it appears on your desktop.

2. In the SheepShaverGUI dialog, click on the "Start" button.

SheepShaver will launch and will boot from the CD. Halfway the process it will discover the new disk (the image you created) that needs to be initialized. Enter a name for the disk, for instance "MacOS8HD", and choose Mac OS Extended for the format.

Finally you will see the CD desktop, with the CD and the new MacOS8HD mounted. You will also see a disk icon named "Unix" that gives access to the "shared" folder in MacOSX. Open the CD and start the installation onto MacOS8HD.

When the installation is finished, you can stop the installer and choose "Restart" from the Special menu. SheepShaver will now boot from the MacOS8HD disk image.

The Configuration assistant may stall at some point while looking for network. If it takes too long and if you know how to configure MacOS manually, simply stop the assistant.

Enable sound in the "Sound" control panel (In MacOS 8.5/8.6 in "Apple Extras" folder) by selecting "Built in" for the sound output.

Shutting down the virtual Mac will also quit "SheepShaver" and "SheepShaverGUI".


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:36 pm 
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Additional information.

1. I found instructions for installing and configuring SheepShaver on an IntelMac also here:
http://www.ambrosiasw.com/forums/lofive ... 04947.html

2. I found several comments implying that the ROM file extracted from the "Mac OS ROM Update 1.0" is in fact the only ROM file that will work with SheepShaver on MacOSX.

3. Why make it so difficult to get a ROM file?
This is a legal matter. You are supposed to own a ROM file only when you own a Mac that has it built in or has it installed or that can use the update. Distributing, posting, exchanging the ROM files is illegal. Web sites that had ROM files for download were forced by Apple to remove the files.
There used to be good reasons for this, but in my opinion this is nowadays a silly legal relic. Anyone having access to a Mac that can run a version of MacOS or that can run Classic in MacOSX, can extract the ROM file from the "Mac OS ROM Update 0.1" with "TomeViewer", both software provided by Apple.


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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 11:15 pm 
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Thanks!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:51 pm 
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Space Cadet

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Hi,

I've followed the instructions here, but when I start up SheepShaver.app, all I get is the startup disc not found icon (Ye Olde Flashing Question Mark). I have an OS 9 CD in the drive (I'm on a MacBook Pro), but it doesn't seem to be recognized, even with the "boot from CD-ROM" option used. If I make a disc image and try from that, the OS 9 installer starts, but then tells me it will only install from an actual CD.

Any advice on this?

Later edit: Re-trying everything--Now SS spits out the OS 9 install CD when I start it up, and then goes to the flashing question mark. The CD itself appears fine when I see it in the Finder.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:09 pm 
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Can you tell us the exact settings you use? Best would be to paste here the content of the invisible file ".sheepshaver_prefs" that is in your Home folder. If you have a utility that can make invisible files visible in the Finder, you can open the file in TextEdit and copy its content. Or you can use Terminal to access the file. If you do not know how to access an invisible file, describe all settings in SheepShaverGUI, especially the settings in the 'Volumes' tab.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:14 pm 
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Space Cadet

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Ronald P. Regensburg wrote:
Can you tell us the exact settings you use? Best would be to paste here the content of the invisible file ".sheepshaver_prefs" that is in your Home folder. If you have a utility that can make invisible files visible in the Finder, you can open the file in TextEdit and copy its content. Or you can use Terminal to access the file. If you do not know how to access an invisible file, describe all settings in SheepShaverGUI, especially the settings in the 'Volumes' tab.


Ron,

Below is the content of .sheepshaver_prefs Note that I've tried variations for naming the volume that SS creates (no extension, .dmg, and .dsk), based on various instructions I've found.

disk os9hd.dsk
extfs /Applications/SheepShaver/shared
screen win/1024/768
windowmodes 0
screenmodes 0
seriala
serialb
rom /Applications/SheepShaver/Mac OS ROM
bootdrive 0
bootdriver 0
ramsize 536870912
frameskip 1
gfxaccel true
nocdrom false
nonet false
nosound false
nogui false
noclipconversion false
ignoresegv false
jit false
jit68k false
keyboardtype 5
ether slirp
keycodes false
keycodefile
mousewheelmode 1
mousewheellines 3
dsp /dev/dsp
mixer /dev/mixer
ignoresegv false
idlewait true


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:19 pm 
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You can use any extension for the disk image file you like. If you use .dmg, you can easily mount the image also in MacOSX after it has been initialised in MacOS, but make sure you never have it mounted in MacOSX and used by SheepShaver at the same time.

You can leave the fields for Audio Output Device and Audio Mixer Device empty, on your Mac /dev/dsp and /dev/mixer probably refer to nothing. But I don't think this is related to your problem.

I can't see anything wrong with your settings. With the MacOS 9 system install CD mounted in MacOSX, SheepShaver should boot from that CD when launched. It is a general 9.0 or 9.0.4 system CD? When you launch SheepShaver, the CD is ejected? Very strange. You do use the build-in drive in your MacBook Pro for the CD?

BTW: I do not know which version of SheepShaver you use, but the version that you can find in the sticky topic at the top of the SheepShaver forum solves a couple of problems with Intel Macs, though not specifically your problem, and the the second sticky topic offers a more Mac-like replacement for the GUI application.


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 Post subject: current state
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:56 pm 
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I'm using a 9.0 CD to install, in the built-in drive. I'm using the latest version of SS as found on the board.

Here's where things are right now. As background, my MacBook wouldn't read the OS 9 CD I tried, so I took the CD to a G4 nearby, and made a copy there, both in Disk Utility (as a CD Master image) and Toast (as a regular disk image), and burned each to a disk. These copies could be read by the MacBook. Starting up SS started up the installer from the CD, but after loading the initial extensions, the installer quit with the message that it couldn't create a desktop folder on the startup disk (or something to that effect) and wanted to restart.

I vaguely remember this problem from the past, and it having something to do with backups sometimes not working correctly (I have a habit of backing up my install CDs and then using the backups--blame it on being brought up in the age of 5.25" floppies).

As an attempted workaround, I went back to the G4 and created a 500 MB disk image with Disk Utility. DU in 10.4 seems to default to the Extended (Journaled) format, so I had to reformat the mounted image as Extended. I then ran the OS 9 installer from one of the images I had made earlier on the G4, and installed OS 9 onto the mounted disk image. I then copied that image back to the MacBook, made it the only volume listed in the preferences, changed the option to boot from any volume, then tried my luck.

That luck was nil. SS still starts up with the flashing question mark icon, so the virtual PPC Mac still can't find a valid startup disk, even with the selected volume having OS 9.0 installed on it.

It's all a bit frustrating, especially since I'd have to hunt around in some boxes to try to find the original copy of the OS 9 installer, if the problem was in fact due to the backup I was using.

Any ideas?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:26 pm 
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The OS9 CD you tried first was already a copy itself? Maybe that is where your problem starts.

The installation created on the G4 not working in SheepShaver is not surprising. MacOS9 cannot be copied easily between different machines as installations on different machines are usually not identical. The installation must be done in SheepShaver itself.

You can try to setup SheepShaver on a different machine, which can be a PPC Mac with MacOSX or even a Windows PC or Linux machine, preferably with the same ROM file that you use with SheepShaver on your MacBook Pro, and see if the installation in SheepShaver succeeds on the other machine. You can than copy the disk image file with the installed OS9 to your MacBook Pro. It should work, regardless on what kind of machine the installation was done, as long as the installation was done in SheepShaver.

One other remark: The OS9 CD must be a 9.0 or 9.0.4 CD, 9.1 or later cannot be used with SheepShaver. And it must be a general system installation CD. A system CD that was originally supplied with a new Mac will not work, it can only be used with the model it was supplied with.


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 Post subject: some progress
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:15 pm 
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I've half solved my problem, I think. The OS 9 CD was originally my copy, the original itself being store somewhere at home, while I usually keep my MacBook at work.
I fixed the problem with booting from the CD by adding a Desktop Folder to the CD image, then re-burning that. This time, SS booted from the CD, and I was able to install OS 9 through SS.

That's as far as I've gotten, though. When I tried to restart SS without the CD, I got the flashing question mark icon again (I can see a brief flash of the smiley Mac, which is stored in the ROM anyway, so that doesn't help much here). Restarting with the CD in, SS booted from the CD. I tried selecting the Startup Disk control panel, in the hopes of setting the SS HD as the boot disk, but SS quits when I try to open the panel. No crash dialog, SS just stops. I tried this with the control panel available through the Apple Menu from the booted CD, and also from the one in the System Folder of the HD, with the same results.
Any time I try to restart SS without the CD, it won't boot. And, yes, the booting option is set to "Any" in the preferences. Also, the CD is a general OS 9.0 install disk (not machine specific).

Call me the King of Weird Problems.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:24 pm 
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The Startup disk control panel is not functional in SheepShaver, trying to use it will crash SheepShaver. (The control panels reside in the System Folder, but can be accessed also from the Apple menu. Opening a control panel in the Apple menu will open the control panel in the System Folder.)

With 'Boot From Any' set, SheepShaver will use the first bootable volume in the volumes list and if it cannot find a bootable volume in the list it will boot from a available bootable CD.

How did you create the disk image that you used to install the system on? A disk image created by Disk Utility on Intel Mac cannot be used to boot MacOS, even when you reformat the volume as Mac OS Extended and the system can be installed on it, because the partition scheme differs between Intel en PPC Macs. It is possible to change that by re-partitioning the volume in Disk Utility using special options, but it is much easier to create a working disk image with SheepShaverGUI or SheepShaverPrefs. While booting from the CD, the MacOS will encounter the newly created 'disk' and will ask if it should be initialised. Choose a name for the disk, select 'Mac OS Extended' for the format and click the button to go ahead.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:38 pm 
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The disk image seems to have been the problem. I read in another thread that you could make the image not in SS and use it. Since I had made one earlier (on a G4) to try to install OS 9, I just used the same image.

Deleting that, and making a new one in SS allowed installation to proceed as advertised, and SS now boots from the OS 9 HD. So, success!

Thanks for your help!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:55 am 
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Ronald,

I used your instructions and I was able to get the program to run properly. However, when I put files in the "shared" folder to use, they turn to plain white documents. This occurs with all files I add. I tried to Rebuild the Desktop or add a program to change the creator codes, but I can't.

Can you tell me how to get my applications to run? All the OS9 apps run fine. I am using 9.0 with the Rom Update 1.0 in an Intel Mac.

Edit: It informs me that the Application program that created it could not be found.


Thank you


Guy Thompson


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:39 am 
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Which version of SheepShaver do you use? The problem you describe looks like a known bug in Gwenole Beauchesne's 2.3 snapshot (May 2006). Better use the March 11 2007 build for Intel Mac that is published in the Sticky topic at the top of this SheepShaver forum. Simply replace the older SheepShaver application with this one, your setup will remain intact.

BTW: Best use the shared folder only as intermediate location for copying files between MacOS and MacOSX environment, not for directly saving files to it, keeping the only existing copies of files in/on it, or opening/using files that are in/on it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:27 pm 
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Thank you Ronald. That solved my problem. As you said previously it did damage the files I had in the shared folder, but replacing them solved that.

One thing I did notice is that the applications I add into the shared folder are generic in 9. I was able to rebuild the desktop and they are still generic. Is this normal for SheepShaver?


Guy


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:42 am 
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TeeGate wrote:
One thing I did notice is that the applications I add into the shared folder are generic in 9. I was able to rebuild the desktop and they are still generic. Is this normal for SheepShaver?

I am not sure I understand what you mean. With applications being "generic" you refer to a generic application icon? Like I wrote before, only use the shared folder for moving files, do not keep the files there. When you move files from MacOSX to MacOS, copy them further from the shared folder (the "Unix" volume) onto the MacOS 9 volume. Do applications still have a generic icon when on the MacOS 9 volume?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:47 pm 
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Yes the applications are in 9 and still are generic.

It appears that when I move anything from OSX into the shared folder and then into 9, the icons are generic. If I load them from a CD directly into the shared folder, they look fine. I rebuilt the database by using ResEdit to make the Desktop DB and DF visible and removing them. That should have corrected the problem but failed even when it rebuilt itself. I also checked to see if their Bundle Bits were turned on and they were. So it is a mystery to me why this happening. It does not effect how things work, just the look.

The right side in this photo was downloaded to 10 and then into 9, and the folder on the left was installed from a CD.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/teegate/post/generic.jpg


I really am happy with the program, and the icon problem I was just curious about. I appreciate all you have done to help me.


And a little bit of info I found out about custom icons and SheepShaver. I had an old program on CD that I had placed a custom icon on the folder it was in, and when I copied the folder to the shared folder and then into 9, the folder disappeared. So I tried tried to copy the folder again into 9 and was informed a file was already there. But it wasn't. So using ResEdit I made it visible again and it instantly disappeared. Once I removed the files from the folder with the custom icon this no longer occurred. So apparently SheepShaver will not work properly using folders with custom icons.


Guy


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:48 pm 
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Apparently remaining bugs with the shared folder that also exist in the May 2006 version on my PowerBook G4. Custom icons disappear and so do application icons. I never noticed the application icon problem because I never moved applications as such form MacOSX to MacOS via the shared folder, I always moved them as the binhex or MacBinary archive that was downloaded and then decoded the files in MacOS.


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 Post subject: invalid rom image
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:01 pm 
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Hi Im running 10.5.3 on a macbookpro and trying to get system 9 running.
I used this great step-by-step and I get the part about installing system 9 and I get an error saying the rom file (which I copied from the system 9 cd) is invalid. Had to force quit to kill the spinning beach ball. Any ideas?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:51 pm 
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I use the program all the time, but don't remember all the details of installing it. Are you using the March 2007 build? I found that one worked better.

I also remember you need a certain Rom. I will have to read over the instructions again to see what that is.


Guy


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:57 pm 
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brbell01 wrote:
I get an error saying the rom file (which I copied from the system 9 cd) is invalid.

That ROM file does not work. Only a few ROM files are compatible with SheepShaver for MacOSX. The one that is certain to work is the ROM file that can be extracted from the "Mac OS ROM Update 1.0", but you will need TomeViewer on a 'Classic' MacOS System to do the extraction.

Some have success with a file called "newworld86.rom" that apparently can be found on the internet. (Note that distributing these ROM files, or owning one without owning the actual Mac, violates the licence agreement with Apple.)

Best use the January 2008 SheepShaver builds, or one of the May 31 builds by 'kelvin31415'. Some nasty bugs are solved in the January builds and several cursor problems are solved by 'kelvin31415'.


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 Post subject: Re: invalid rom image
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:00 pm 
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brbell01 wrote:
Hi Im running 10.5.3 on a macbookpro and trying to get system 9 running.
I used this great step-by-step and I get the part about installing system 9 and I get an error saying the rom file (which I copied from the system 9 cd) is invalid. Had to force quit to kill the spinning beach ball. Any ideas?

Mac OS ROM on an OS9 CD don't currently work with Sheepshaver. 8.5 or 8.6's Mac OS ROM will work, however.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:28 pm 
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yksoft1 wrote:
8.5 or 8.6's Mac OS ROM will work

The Mac OS ROM from the 8.5 CD does not work with SheepShaver for MacOSX. I do not know if the 8.6 file will work, I do not have access to a 8.6 install CD.


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