Classic Wrapper

[sentient06]

Hi there folks!
This is my first post, though I've been reading this forum for some years by now.

I am a happy Mac user, today I am on Snow Leopard. But I always felt a little bit bothered to be forced to use Windows to play some games.
I've been using Bootcamp for a time, but since I discovered the wine/cider wrappers, never again I shall use windows on my mac!

For those who never heard of those wrappers, it works like this:

One can use a very light version of wine or cider to port games (sometimes other softwares) into an .app file. So one can run this game without actually use windows, in a very good performance, just like it was a mac application.

You can take a look in this site for more info: http://portingteam.com/

My question is: is it too complicated to assemble a classic wrapper with basilisk/sheepshaver source code?

Consider run a game like, say, prince of persia 2, with the emulator's code, inside an application file.

Cheers!

[Cat_7]

Hi, welcome,

Do I understand you correct when I think you want to have a SheepShaver application environment (like CiderX) in which you can add e.g., the game you mentioned. The game would then run without you noticing SheepShaver?

I think that would be lot of work, if possible at all. We have only very limited possibilities for passing information into SheepShaver during startup or the boot on Mac OS.

Best,
Cat_7

[sentient06]

Hi Cat_7!

Yes, you are quite correct. This is what I mean.
I really don't know how does cider/wine really works, but I think that perhaps windows is a little bit more easy to be virtualized even because there is no difference between processors today.

But basilisk and sheepshaver are out there and they work very well to most of our needings.. If we could manipulate a Mac OS Classic system, so it could receive data by other meanings besides emulating a mac enviroment and avoiding some applications and processes not needed to run the application, do yout think it could be easier to give a try?

Did someone ever "hacked" a Mac OS System in a similar fashion?

[ClockWise]

Like Cat_7 said, I imagine that would be a lot of work.

Interestingly, ARDI used to license "Carbonless Copies" which did just that to run System 6 era Macintosh software in Windows:

http://www.ardi.com/cc.php

[sentient06]

So, I see executor is available here:

https://github.com/ctm/executor

It is not, it seems, a true emulator, but it could handle some softwares...
Do you guys ever worked with executor's code? Is it too complex? I am thinking about making some tests, but my knowledge in C is limited to MUD games.

[ClockWise]

I tried to compile executor in Ubuntu, but it is tricky. You could give it a shot, perhaps. Or you could download the Windows build, which should work for you out-of-the-box.

Executor isn't designed to run as a wrapper. But it is much easier to set up than Basilisk II or SheepShaver.

[Ambassador]

It is not, it seems, a true emulator, but it could handle some softwares...

You are correct. Executor acts very much like Wine in this regard.

[Jorpho]

A while ago someone brought up the topic of vMACE, which seems intended to function as a wrapper:
http://www.emaculation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6711
http://pmace.sourceforge.net/vmace.html

Of course, it's nowhere near complete, but with the availability of the Executor source code, it's not entirely beyond the realm of Earthly possibility.

[sentient06]

I've been checking these topics.. it seems the vMace fellow disappeared.
Pity. I think if more people were aware of these projects, great things could be done.

[DaFrigN]

Hi,
Here's an idea...

Use ResEdit to change the creator/type code for the app you are wrapping to the codes for the finder,
The replace the Finder in your disk .img with that modified app, you may have to rename it to "Finder". It's been a long time since I did this, but it used to work for some apps on my 9600, 6100 AV, Mac512KE (all of of which still working to this day), when MacOS boots it should go right into the target app instead of the Finder.

Then you could use sheepshaver's wrapper features to make a self contained app. It's probably wont be as seamless as "Classic".

I'm going to try it when I get a chance. Please let me know what you guys think.

[Jorpho]

The big downside to BasiliskII/Sheepshaver (and probably the major reason that more work hasn't been done in regards to "wrappers") is that you still need Apple's proprietary, copyrighted ROM somehow or another, and probably the Mac OS itself.

It has been proposed on occasion that it might be possible to cobble together a suitable replacement ROM from the Executor code, but no one has yet to do anything substantial with Executor, alas.

(I did find out just the other day that there is actually a free replacement for the Amiga Kickstart ROM; Amiga emulators also used to require a proprietary, copyrighted ROM until this came along. Of course, that's entirely different from the Macintosh.)

[adespoton]

There's a "SheepShaver Wrapper" linked on this site now; works better than the one I wrote myself years ago in Platypus. As for wrapping an app: if you strip down 8.6, add an Appearance template that looks like OS X, and do the Finder T&C trick, you've got yourself a wrapper (just needs a bit of work to shoehorn the app into the image). Best for full-screen apps. You could also drop a StartupScreen image in the System Folder that would make booting the wrapper look more like you hit a splash screen than the standard load sequence.

The wrapper on here works by dragging a rom file and an OS install image onto the icon, and it does the rest itself. 500MB drive built-in.

[Jorpho]

What are you referring to, specifically?

EDIT: Ahh, you mean this one.

[adespoton]

Yup... and just a reminder; Apple's going to be pulling its updates (from which you can get a legit ROM) from its support site shortly (already starting to vanish from the mirrors)... of course, if you get a retail CD of 9.0.4, it'll have the ROM on it too.

Actually, this gives me an idea: you should be able to make a wrapper that asks for the install CD (image), and if it gets one, uses that as the secondary mount point (to install on the 500MB embedded image) and then attempts to rip the ROM from the image and load it into SS.

Just reminded me... we should update that wrapper with the binary containing sparsebundle support, so that the built-in image can be smaller/larger Set it to 2GB to keep it safe.

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

I am not sure how that is for SheepShaver on Windows, ROM files from 8.5/8.6 CD's may work, but ROM files copied from system install CD's, any version, do not work with SheepShaver for MacOSX.

[Temporary Joe]

Yup... and just a reminder; Apple's going to be pulling its updates (from which you can get a legit ROM) from its support site shortly (already starting to vanish from the mirrors)... of course, if you get a retail CD of 9.0.4, it'll have the ROM on it too.

WHAT? When? Where? Why? What's the information on that?

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

See this topic: http://www.emaculation.com/forum/viewto ... f=3&t=8063

[adespoton]

I am not sure how that is for SheepShaver on Windows, ROM files from 8.5/8.6 CD's may work, but ROM files copied from system install CD's, any version, do not work with SheepShaver for MacOSX.

Thought I'd check this out. Results on SS 20130510, OS X 10.8.4 host running 9.0.4 with 9.2.2 additions:
2000 PowerPC (New World 3.8) [9.0.4] : NO (off of the 9.0.4 update image)
1999 PowerPC (New World 1.6) [8.6] : YES (off of the 8.6 update image)
1999 PowerPC (New World 1.4) [8.6] : YES (off of the 8.6 install CD)
1999 Power Mac G3 v3 [8.5.1-10.4.11 128-1GB] : Needs some tweaking (white screen with defaults) (ROM dump)
1998 PowerPC (New World 1.2.1) [8.5.1 iMac Update 1.1] : YES (Off the iMac update 1.1 image)
1998 PowerPC (New World 1.2.0) [8.5.1] : YES (Off the 8.5.1 update image)
1998 Power Mac G3 Desktop [8.0-10.2.8 64-192] : YES (ROM dump)
1998 PowerBook G3 Wallstreet v2 [8.0-10.2.8 64-192] : NO (understandable, as it's not designed to) (ROM dump)

So... ROM files copied from system install CDs DO work with SheepShaver for Mac OS X. Only the New World ones, though (which are the only ones provided on CD AFAIK).

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

Well, you are probably right. The last time I checked that was many years ago (at the time probably even on a PPC Tiger host system) and I am certain it did not work then, while the ROM files from 8.5 and 8.6 CD's did work with SheepShaver for Windows. Exception were ROM files copied from model-specific install CD's for a few Mac models that somehow matched with what the emulated SheepShaver machine needed.

I now tried the Mac OS ROM file copied from the System Folder on a 8.5 retail install CD and it does work with 9.0.4 on my latest SheepShaver build.
The Mac OS ROM file copied from the System Folder on a 9.0 retail install CD still does not work.

I am not sure, however, that we are talking about the same thing. I am talking about files you can simply copy in OSX from a MacOS install CD. You mention, for instance, a file from a 8.6 update image. I do have a 8.6 update image, but it contains only the installer files, not a System Folder like on bootable system install CD's. Indeed, the ROM file from the iMac update works, as does the ROM file from the Mac OS ROM Update 1.0. But to get those files, one needs to have a running emulator or an old Mac to start with so one can use TomeViewer. The new world ROM file that most people get from redundant robot is in fact the file from the Mac OS ROM Update 1.0.

[adespoton]

Ah... I see where there could be some confusion. When I was saying "off the CD" I didn't mean out of the system folder (I'm surprised that some of those work!) -- I meant the ones embedded in one of the install tomes. Currently we use TomeViewer to extract from those, but I think it would actually be pretty trivial* to write a script on OS X that would look inside the disk image, inside the install tome, and pull out the data and resource forks and reassemble them.

*trivial meaning a few evening's work -- not that any of us tend to have that sort of time available for such things!