Opens fine, but only after dozens of launch crashes

About SheepShaver, a PPC Mac emulator for Windows, MacOS X, and Linux that can run System 7.5.3 to MacOS 9.0.4.

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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Opens fine, but only after dozens of launch crashes

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Well, you can see from the preferences which is which.

Session 1.cdr 724.2Mb is a CD image file, possibly created by yourself, that is currently not used.

OS9.img is probably downloaded at first setup from Redundant Robot, judging by the name and the small size. If it is that file, it contains only a minimal MacOS 9.0.4 System Folder on a small volume that does not have room for additional installations. It is at the top of the list, so you may still start up from it. Not good if that is indeed the case. That image file is not suitable for use as startup disk with continued intensive use of SheepShaver.

New.dsk is a larger disk that you will have created for additional installations and storage room. If OS9.img is still your startup disk, software installations can be installed on the larger New.dsk but related extensions will be installed in the System Folder on the (too) small OS9 disk.

When you run SheepShaver, you can see from the order in which the disks appear, which is the startup disk. The names of the mounted disks will not be the same as the diks image file names. The startup disk is the one that appears at the top, the other one of the two will appear below that first one. The smaller one will be the OS9.img.

To see information about the disk, like size and how much room is left: Select the icon and hit command-I.

Let me know which is which. In which order the disks appear, their size and the room left on each.
Calymbus
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Re: Opens fine, but only after dozens of launch crashes

Post by Calymbus »

In order:

• OS9 — Mac OS Standard — 119.9Mb — Available 8.4Mb — Used 111.4Mb, 627 items
• MacOS9HD — Mac OS Extended — 1.95Gb — Available 1.79Gb — Used 161Mb, 1705 items
• Unix — Unix Directory Tree — Capacity 1023.9Mb — Available 1023.9Mb — Used zero bytes, 2 items

OS9 has a System Folder: 108.9Mb for 599 items.

Although Unix claims to be empty, in fact it has quite a few items visible in it which, of course, also show up in my macOS Sierra Finder, outside the SheepShaver folder, in a folder called "Shared" (which coincidentally is 108.9Mb — the same size as the System Folder). "Shared" also contains a Desktop Folder.
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Opens fine, but only after dozens of launch crashes

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

The Unix "volume" is not a real disk or volume. It is a special feature that connects to your shared folder. Finder Info about capacity and used/available space are fixed values that have no relation to the actual capacity etc.

The Desktop folder in your shared folder is invisible in "Unix". If it contains files, those files will be visible on the desktop in SheepShaver.
(Each "volume" mounted in classic MacOS has its own hidden Desktop folder and what you see on the desktop are the combined desktops of all mounted volumes.)

The OS9 startup image has around 8MB of additional files installed compared to the original you downloaded. Does it contain files outside the System Folder?

Do I understand correctly that the MacOS9HD does not contain a System Folder? That would mean that at setup you did not follow the setup guide and never did a system installation.
Calymbus
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Re: Opens fine, but only after dozens of launch crashes

Post by Calymbus »

It sounds most unlike me NOT to follow a guide, but perhaps I thought that since SheepShaver booted & everything worked, job done. But you're right: there's no System Folder in MacOS9HD.

Well, this is a pickle. My original intention in getting SheepShaver running was to run Cubase, since I ran a recording studio for 35 years & all my own projects for many of those years were recorded in Cubase. Steinberg (who made it, & with whom I had thought I had a good working relationship) did a VERY BAD THING on numerous occasions, & the upshot was that in the end I ditched them & went with their arch-enemies, Logic. That was an excellent decision, but due to Steinberg's intransigence it had quickly become impossible to preserve Songs from earlier versions of Cubase; you could no longer open them in later versions, or indeed in anything else*. So I became desperate to find a way of opening a version of Cubase that COULD read my songs — & it turned out that for other reasons to do with hardware keys (I got round that, after a lot of trouble) & SheepShaver's inability to connect MIDI equipment, Cubase always crashed with errors when it couldn't detect an output MIDI device.

There's nothing more annoying than an upgrade which breaks things which used to work, especially when you do actually NEED those things to be working, & on that account Steinberg have to rate as one of the all-time worst offenders.

Anyway… be that as it may, the upshot is probably that there may be Cubase extensions in the OS9 drive, & probably other extensions removed (rather than merely disabled) in an attempt to eliminate Cubase incompatibility (& that dreadful Control Strip, which nothing I do seems to be able to disable). So the OS9 drive is no longer pristine.

Consequently, I'm guessing I need two things: a back-up strategy for everything in MacOS9HD (& some vital preferences in the OS9 drive), & a Mac OS Install CD (or equivalent).
I do have one of the latter, but I would not trust a commercial optical disc to remain flawless for more than 20 years, so I'm not going to attempt to use THAT.

*: I was not the only person inconvenienced by this appalling lack of customer support! Half the music industry railed against it for years, but to no avail.
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Opens fine, but only after dozens of launch crashes

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

You probably did not install the system because you started with the OS9 image from Redundant Robot instead of an installation CD image. That way you never came across a Mac OS installer.

Well, apparently not Cubase you are using now. Which applications do you use in SheepShaver?
Calymbus
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Re: Opens fine, but only after dozens of launch crashes

Post by Calymbus »

Just freeware — nothing that requires any drivers or extensions.

But this conversation is starting to get me thinking that… just MAYBE… I could get Cubase working without crashing…
At this point, anyone with any sense would say: "Just let it go! You've lived without it for twenty years!"

:cool:
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Opens fine, but only after dozens of launch crashes

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

As far as I am aware, SheepShaver cannot connect to MIDI devices. Maybe QEMU can. I do not know, I have only minimal experience with QEMU. (QEMU is a different PPC emulator.) Maybe someone else can answer that.

If you want to get your SheepShaver setup renewed with a proper installation while retrieving your data from the existing setup, we better discuss that in private messages. It will be a rather long and complex procedure that may not be interesting for other forum members.
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Cat_7
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Re: Opens fine, but only after dozens of launch crashes

Post by Cat_7 »

To answer that midi/qemu question:

No it can't, neither over serial or USB connections. At least not in macOS hosts where there is an issue with passing through USB devices.
We tried some time ago and sent very detailed reports to the qemu developers list, which didn't get picked up.

Best,
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Calymbus
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Re: Opens fine, but only after dozens of launch crashes

Post by Calymbus »

Sorry; I should have made it clear that I never needed Cubase to actually send or receive MIDI. I just needed access to the data, which is to say, I needed the app to run without crashing!
Cubase didn't just give an error message, as you'd expect, to say it couldn't find a MIDI interface; it went all out & crashed.
It was the fact that I couldn't even open the songs to see how they'd been arranged that was so exasperating.
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adespoton
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Re: Opens fine, but only after dozens of launch crashes

Post by adespoton »

Calymbus wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:45 pm Sorry; I should have made it clear that I never needed Cubase to actually send or receive MIDI. I just needed access to the data, which is to say, I needed the app to run without crashing!
Cubase didn't just give an error message, as you'd expect, to say it couldn't find a MIDI interface; it went all out & crashed.
It was the fact that I couldn't even open the songs to see how they'd been arranged that was so exasperating.
Last time I tried to use Cubase in SheepShaver I had the same crash, but that was over a decade ago; I haven't tried it in SS or QEMU recently. That's what I use my Mac OS 9 G4 Mini for :D
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