New SheepShaver MacOSX UB build for testing

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

Edit: A newer (11 February 2011) test build posted here: http://www.emaculation.com/forum/viewto ... 058#p42058

With thanks to Myrd, here is a new Universal build that should run on PPC and Intel in OSX 10.4 through 10.7.

Download: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ronaldpr/sheepsha ... 2_test.zip

Anyone who wants to try it, please report your findings. Below are the first test results. "+" means that it works well, "–" means that it does not work or has a problem. "Hardware cursor" means that you can move the black arrow cursor out of the SheepShaver window without a cursor image staying behind at the window border.

In OSX 10.5 or later on 64-bit capable Intel machines, SheepShaver will run in 64-bit mode by default, but can be set to run in 32-bit mode in Finder Info for the application.

PPC OSX 10.4.11
+ Window mode
+ Full-screen mode
+ Hardware cursor
+ clipboard integration for text
– Like the other PPC versions, very CPU hungry. Should not be run at higher than 30Hz refresh rate.

Intel OSX 10.4.11 (tested by Cat_7)
+ Window mode
+ Full-screen mode
+ Hardware cursor
+ clipboard integration for text

Intel OSX 10.6.8 (64-bit)
+ Window mode
– Full-screen mode (serious cursor problems when clicking in menu bar)
+ Hardware cursor
– clipboard integration for text (known problem in 64-bit mode)

Intel OSX 10.6.8 (32-bit)
+ Window mode
+ Full-screen mode
+ Hardware cursor
+ clipboard integration for text

Intel OSX 10.7.2 (64-bit)
+ Window mode
+ Full-screen mode
+ Hardware cursor
– clipboard integration for text (known problem in 64-bit mode)

Intel OSX 10.7.2 (32-bit)
+ Window mode
+ Full-screen mode
+ Hardware cursor
+ clipboard integration for text

[24bit]

Thanks for your work!
The build is working for me in 10.6.8 Legacy, 64bit, window mode.
What happened to the computing speed?
The test build is rated about 25% slower than the SheepShaver_UB_20101106 build by MiniBench2. http://www.mediafire.com/?8p3rd7bjji96sir
Did you slow down the build purposely for stability reasons?

[PeterHolbrook]

Just tried the new build on Lion. The previous one installed on my system was the November 6, 2010 build, which I can only run in 32-bit mode, since the 64-bit mode crashes unless I disable the SOMObjects extension. The new build doesn't crash in 64-bit mode, but, as documented, the clipboard isn't shared across OS X and the OS in SheepShaver. Running SS in 32-bit mode also works as documented, but I've just noticed that the clipboard has (/always had?) limitations. I've only been able to copy text reliably from/to SimpleText for OS 9 and OS X text applications. It doesn't seem to work when the origin or destination of text is, say, Classilla or WordPerfect. Does anyone know why the SS clipboard has such limitations?

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

Did you slow down the build purposely for stability reasons?

No nothing like that. I do not know what makes this build slower on a benchmark test. It is difficult to compare this build with previous SheepShaver builds posted here as (possible) recommended versions. It is the first one that is build in a XCode project, the first one that is build to run on any configuration from Tiger on PPC to Lion on 64-bit Intel, the first one that uses the current development version of the not yet released SDL 1.2.15, and the first one that has the SDL.framework in the bundle.

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

Running SS in 32-bit mode also works as documented, but I've just noticed that the clipboard has (/always had?) limitations.

Yes, it always had limitations. It seems to be related to different character encodings used by different applications and the defaults in MacOS (Western Mac OS Roman) and MacOSX (UTF-8). Sometimes one needs to use for instance SimpleText as intermediate step.

Does this build run for you in Lion in both window mode and full-screen mode in both 32-bit and 64-bit mode? And is the hardware cursor working as intended in window mode?

[emendelson]

You've already done so much for everyone here that I feel ungrateful in asking for one thing more.

Is there any chance that you could create a build that would be 32-bit only? That would make it possible to distribute SheepShaver to beginners, without explaining that they need to change a setting in order to get clipboard integration.

Is there any real advantage to 64-bit mode? Might it not be useful to post a 32-bit-only build for general use, with the 64-bit-capable build available for anyone who especially needs it?

Again, you've done so much that I feel very hesitant about asking for more work from you.

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

Is there any chance that you could create a build that would be 32-bit only?

I think it is possible to make it launch in 32-bit by default and need additional action to make it run in 64-bit mode. I will have a look at that.

Is there any real advantage to 64-bit mode? Might it not be useful to post a 32-bit-only build for general use, with the 64-bit-capable build available for anyone who especially needs it?

The newest Macs, possibly for now only the Pro versions, will boot in 64-bit kernel by default and cannot run 32-bit application anymore unless the machine is forced to boot in 32-bit kernel by holding the 3 and 2 keys at startup. We can expect a next MacOSX version (10.8? 10.9?) to not be able to run 32-bit software at all. So we need to work towards functional 64-bit software.

[Myrd]

Is there any real advantage to 64-bit mode? Might it not be useful to post a 32-bit-only build for general use, with the 64-bit-capable build available for anyone who especially needs it?

The 64-bit build should offer better performance, though I've not done any measurements.

The newest Macs, possibly for now only the Pro versions, will boot in 64-bit kernel by default and cannot run 32-bit application anymore unless the machine is forced to boot in 32-bit kernel by holding the 3 and 2 keys at startup.

That's not true - you can still run 32-bit applications under a 64-bit kernel currently.


I've now committed a change to the Info.plist that will make SheepShaver prefer 32-bit mode by default.

[Myrd]

What happened to the computing speed?
The test build is rated about 25% slower than the SheepShaver_UB_20101106 build by MiniBench2. http://www.mediafire.com/?8p3rd7bjji96sir

It looks like the speed regression is caused by using GCC 4.0 instead of GCC 4.2 for the Xcode project build. Unfortunately, GCC 4.0 is required to build 10.4-compatible binaries.

I wonder how important having 10.4 for the Intel build is - perhaps we can keep the PPC build 10.4 compatible while having the Intel build require 10.5+.

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

I've now committed a change to the Info.plist that will make SheepShaver prefer 32-bit mode by default.

I suppose that's the "Architecture priority"? I thought of editing the Info.plist manually in the application, but being in the souce is of course better. I will make a new build later.

I wonder how important having 10.4 for the Intel build is - perhaps we can keep the PPC build 10.4 compatible while having the Intel build require 10.5+.

Judging by posts in the forums, some people still run the 10.4.x that came installed on their Intel Mac. I do not know relative numbers.

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

Built a new SheepShaver. Info.plist has the architecture priority and in Finder Info the "Open in 32-bit mode" box is checked by default. However, when I copy the new application to where I had the previous one with the box not checked, the box appears to be unchecked and the application launches in 64-bit mode.

Could this be caused by cached info somewhere? LaunchServices?

Edit: Nothing to do with LaunchServices. It must be a Finder thing and how it saves the info. One can toggle between 32-bit checked and not checked by moving the application between two locations or by just changing the application name and changing it back again while it stays in the same location. Bizarre.

[PeterHolbrook]

Does this build run for you in Lion in both window mode and full-screen mode in both 32-bit and 64-bit mode? And is the hardware cursor working as intended in window mode?

Sorry not to have answered before. Yes, it runs well for me on all accounts and the hardware cursor does indeed seem to work as intended in windowed mode. Overall, a significant improvement, although it seems to be slightly slower.

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

That would mean that the cursor problem in 64-bit full-screen mode in Snow Leopard does not exists in Lion. This is consistent with earlier findings with recent builds. Still, I think it is strange that the problem exists in 10.6 and not in 10.7. Has anyone tried this build in 10.5?

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

Other changes I noticed when compared with previous builds:

Positive:
- The odd "unexpectedly quit" message at startup on PPC while SheepShaver kept running normally, has gone in this build.
- Launching iCab in SheepShaver 64-bit does not cause SheepShaver to crash anymore.

Negative:
- The color problems after SheepShaver window has been minimized or hidden and brought back again, now also affect 32-bit Intel. Before it affected only 64-bit.
(I think it is related to SDL. In my previous builds, ppc and i386 were build with SDL 1.2.10 and x86_64 was build with SDL 1.2.14. Now SDL 1.2.15 is used.)

[24bit]

Not sure if this is of any help, Ronald.
I did try in Leopard - somehow. I have Leo in VMWare only on my E5700 Hacki.
For me the test build does not work, it only jumps in the dock and quits after a few seconds.
The old build mentioned above runs all right in windowed and fullscreen mode in my setup.

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

Could it be that it tries to run in 64-bit mode? Have you tried setting it in Finder Info to run in 32-bit mode before launching?

Anyone with Leopard on a real Mac who can test this build? (Please include information about the processor with a report.)

[24bit]

No chance with Leo for me, not with 32bit box checked and not with Rosetta checked.

[Myrd]

No chance with Leo for me, not with 32bit box checked and not with Rosetta checked.

Can you open Applications -> Utilities -> Console.app and copy/paste the error message from there when you try to open SS?

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

This problem may not be the same issue, but my 24 October 2010 build had problems in 10.5.
See: http://www.emaculation.com/forum/viewto ... 257#p36257

It seemed that the application insisted on running in 64-bit mode, even when the 32-bit box was checked. I solved the issue two weeks later in my 6 November 2010 build by adding to the Info-plist a "Minimum system versions, per-architecture":
PowerPC (32-bit) -> 10.4.0
Intel (32-bit) -> 10.4.0
Intel (64-bit) -> 10.6.0

[MetalSnake]

This problem may not be the same issue, but my 24 October 2010 build had problems in 10.5.
See: http://www.emaculation.com/forum/viewto ... 257#p36257

It seemed that the application insisted on running in 64-bit mode, even when the 32-bit box was checked. I solved the issue two weeks later in my 6 November 2010 build by adding to the Info-plist a "Minimum system versions, per-architecture":
PowerPC (32-bit) -> 10.4.0
Intel (32-bit) -> 10.4.0
Intel (64-bit) -> 10.6.0

why would you want 64bit on Snow Leopard? I'm on a 32bit Mac Book Pro with Snow Leopard.

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

why would you want 64bit on Snow Leopard? I'm on a 32bit Mac Book Pro with Snow Leopard.

This was only added in that build to prevent it from running in 64-bit mode in Leopard. In Snow Leopard (and in Lion) it can run in both 32-bit and 64-bit mode. No problem in Snow Leopard on 32-bit only machines.

[24bit]

Myrd, this is the console message:

14.01.12 17:57:50 com.apple.launchd[92] ([0x0-0x18018].SheepShaver[225]) Exited abnormally: Segmentation fault

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

14.01.12 17:57:50 com.apple.launchd[92] ([0x0-0x18018].SheepShaver[225]) Exited abnormally: Segmentation fault

Was "Ignore Illegal Memory Accesses" enabled in SheepShaver Preferences?

[Ronald P. Regensburg]

@24bit

Does this build run in Leopard on your setup?

http://www.xs4all.nl/~ronaldpr/sheepsha ... 4_test.zip

[24bit]

Ronald,
yes the Ignore Illegal Memory Accesses box was checked, and Yes todays build you posted above does indeed run in my Leo setup, 64bit mode fullscreen.
Thats pretty cool for those using Leopard, I presume.
Thanks again for your work!

Are you interested in reports from Tiger / VMWare / X86 as well?
For the records, I was trying a D-8.6 OS with the Old World ROM.