Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

About SheepShaver, a PPC Mac emulator for Windows, MacOS X, and Linux that can run System 7.5.3 to MacOS 9.0.4.

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Not_a_Hero
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Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by Not_a_Hero »

SheepShave v2.4 (2014-02-01) is running fairly well with OS 9.04 under Mavericks on my Retina PowerBook Pro (mid-2012): I can run MacProject, Adobe Distiller and other software with problems. The trouble is that I cannot get FrameMaker 7 (with the 577 update patch) to run. I did the following (using an old registration number that I used to use some years ago):

1. Used 1024x768 screen size.

2. Couldn't get the first copy of FM7 to complete installation.

3. Downloaded a second FM7 from another site, which installed FM7 and Distiller, but afterward the installation cleanup process never terminated, keeping the little clock icon on the screen. After entering my registration number, this copy crashed during the startup of the program.

4. I played around with the system and eventually a message was generated (I don't know what I did to get this) that there was a missing extension: " Installer Cleanup -- INIT kajr".

5. I figured that the installation process cleanup never terminated and i installed the third copy of FM7. This copy completed the full installation process, including the cleanup phase.

6. But this last copy keeps crashing SheepShaver the FM7 startup process.

7. Remembering an old post on this board, in which someone wrote that he had to delete the WebDAV and the WebDAVLinks files, I did that as well but to no avail.

8. I'm trying to run FM7 from a virtual 500MB disk that I created, and am not running it from the "Shared" folder.

As FM7 is the only software that I need to run under System 9, is there a solution to this? Do I need to try to reinstall a full System 9.04 and, if so, where can I get this and how do I do it? Do I have to start over from scratch. I've already spent a lot of time on this, and wonder whether there is a solution. Any help with be greatly appreciated.
NucAr
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Re: Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by NucAr »

According to the Macintosh Garden page for FrameMaker 7.0, this program does not run under emulation. Since it seems to be a classic Mac OS, non-carbonized application, there's probably no way to run it on an Intel Mac.
Mr. Tamarin
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Re: Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by Mr. Tamarin »

Macintosh Garden has incorrect information then as I have FrameMaker 7.0 running very nicely on the following setup:

MacBook Pro model 4,1 running Mac OSX 10.6.8
SheepShaver 2.3.20091018 running Mac OS 9.0.4 with 512 MB RAM assigned.
Adobe FrameMaker 7.0p577

Make sure the following options are marked in the SheepShaver preferences:
Enable JIT Compiler
Allow Emulated CPU to Idle
Ignore Illegal Instructions
Ignore Illegal Memory Accesses

Make sure to remove the WebDAV module from the Modules folder in the Adobe FrameMaker 7.0 application folder. You can just drag the WebDAV module up into the parent Adobe FrameMaker 7.0 folder so you don't lose it.

Being able to still run programs like FrameMaker 7.0 is why SheepShaver rocks!
NucAr
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Re: Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by NucAr »

That's good to hear. I'd highly recommend you edit the Macintosh Garden page with this information. I could do it if you guys don't have accounts there.

I'm guessing it's not any particular SheepShaver version (2.4 should work?) that makes it work, but mainly removing that WebDAV file that makes SheepShaver crash, and the CPU options.
Not_a_Hero
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Re: Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by Not_a_Hero »

I followed the instructions of Mr. Tamarind and that resulted in SheepShaver itself crashing upon opening. I tried tried various combinations in the Preferences setup, and SheepShaver then crashed upon opening, with a message that there was a conflict with Sound Manager and suggesting restart with Extensions off. I did that and SheepShaver opened. I then went back to the original Preferences suggested in the Setup Manual, i.e., only checking Enable JIT Compiler, Allow Emulated CPU to Idle and Ignore Illegal Memory Accesses.

With that I could again open SheepShaver without crashing. But then Framemaker kept on crashing, except for one time, when it ran and put up screen giving a choice of recording the registration on line or by mail. I chose the latter option (I had already entered my serial number when first installing FM7.0). But after than FrameMaker froze up SheepShaver. Since then, though, FrameMaker keeps on crashing upon startup.

As stated in the original post, I'm running Mavericks and the newest version of SheepShaver. Not sure whether t keep on trying. I though of reinstalling System 9.04; but does anyone know where I can a full System disk file?
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Cat_7
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Re: Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by Cat_7 »

Hi,

A search in the forum showed that framemaker 7 runs in older sheepshaver versions.

Best,
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Not_a_Hero
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Re: Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by Not_a_Hero »

Cat_7, thanks.

I just tried v2.3(2009-10-25) several times, but FM7.1 just crashes before it runs. Any other version that you think I should try? [I'm running Maverick].
Last edited by Not_a_Hero on Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

The 2009-10-25 build is virtually identical to the 2009-10-18 build that "Mr. Tamarin" used successfully for FM 7, with the exception of a fix for a bug that was introduced in the 2009-10-18 build. However, if you want to try the 2009-10-18 build, it can be downloaded here: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ronaldpr/sheepsha ... 091018.zip

Edit: When changing SheepShaver builds, especially after SheepShaver crashes, it may sometimes be necessary to remove the SheepShaver NVRAM file. In Terminal:

Code: Select all

rm .sheepshaver_nvram
Last edited by Ronald P. Regensburg on Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Not_a_Hero
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Re: Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by Not_a_Hero »

Thanks, I just tried version the 2009-10-18 build and, after crashing a few times, FM7.0 suddenly worked for a while, but then froze when I tried to print a PDF file. Playing around a bit more with the latest v2.4 (2014-02-01), FM7.0 crashed a few times upon trying to open but then suddenly opened successfully and ran quite well: I managed to edit a file and then print it to PDF, and Quit FM normally. But then when I tried to open it again it kept on crashing again. Looks like at this stage FM7.0 simply isn't usable on my system.
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adespoton
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Re: Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by adespoton »

You might want to strip it down and try using it with no plugins, and see if that stabilizes it. Then add only the plugins you really need and see if it's still stable. Also, make sure you're using a clean nvram file for the emulator.
Not_a_Hero
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Re: Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by Not_a_Hero »

adespoton, thanks. Tried that today. The trouble is, as I add extensions and \ FM7.0 keeps on crashing, I never know whether it's crashing because it needs another extension or whether I have to remove another one. Tried quite a few different combinations without success.
Mr. Tamarin
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Re: Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by Mr. Tamarin »

Just for fun (and to see if it would actually work :smile: ), I cleared off one of the hard drives in my Mac Mini server and installed Mavericks 10.9.1 on it. I then installed the latest SheepShaver build (2.4.20140201) in Mavericks and copied over the disk image and the 4 MB old-world Mac OS ROM I've been using on my MacBook Pro. I then set up the same SheepShaver preferences as on my MacBook Pro, and I fired it up. Guess what ... it still works in the Mavericks environment with the latest SheepShaver build!!!
I though of reinstalling System 9.04; but does anyone know where I can a full System disk file?
My best guess as to what the problem is, based on the above quote, is that you don't have a full Mac OS 9.0.4 installation from a retail installer disk. I think my test can pretty much rule out Mavericks or the 20140201 SheepShaver build as the problem.

It's also possible you are using a different Mac OS ROM than I am. Try the 4 MB old-world ROM if you aren't already using it.

As far as control panels or extensions go, I currently don't have any disabled. I can't remember if I did any customizations when I was installing Mac OS 9.0.4 though.

Sorry I don't have any hardware newer than my 2010 Mac Mini to test with.
Not_a_Hero
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Re: Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by Not_a_Hero »

Thanks for the effort. The first thing I'll try is a 4 MB old-world ROM — I was using a new-world one. As for the full Mac OS 9.0.4 installation from a retail installer disk, I won't have a chance of trying this unless I can unless I can download it from somewhere on the web: I'm currently in Bangkok and traveling this Friday night to Paris and then on March 3 proceeding to the Washington, DC area, where I might find an old OS9.04 CD, not sure though.
NucAr
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Re: Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by NucAr »

Find the Macintosh Garden page for Mac OS 9.x, and get the retail version of Mac OS 9.0.4.
Not_a_Hero
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Re: Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by Not_a_Hero »

NucAr, thanks. I was able to download the MacOS904Z.iso (International Retail CD) from another site, as the service reached from Macintosh Garden requires a three-hour wait before beginning the download: they want to force one to subscribe to their site.

Mr. Tamarin, I found an Old World 4.2 ROM and installed a full OS 9.0.4 from a retail installer disk. After having FM7 crash several times, I restarted with only the Base Extensions and FM7 started up fine and I though that I was home free; but, no way: after quitting FM7 and trying to start it again, SheepShaver kept on crashing. Now that I know that FM7 can run with only the base Extensions, I don't need to try to do successive tests to isolate an Extension that causes the crashes. Unfortunately, this also means that there is a more basic problem. So, now I'm stuck.

When FrameMaker runs in SheepShaver, it is quick and quite usable. Incidentally, I've also tried running the Windows version of FrameMaker 7.1, using Crossover, a Windows emulation, in which FM runs fine. But there are two problems: (1) FrameMaker runs rather scraggly and ragged under Crossover and I cannot see using this solution for writing a long and complex document, which is what FM is really great for, much better than MS Word, which become sluggish and crash-prone for long, complex documents; and (2) although I have a serial number for the Windows version of FM7.1, I could only find a 30-day Trial to install, which doesn't let you enter the serial number. And, after only six days, when I tried running it there was a message that the trial period was over.
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Re: Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by Mr. Tamarin »

I think I might have found the answer.

I was playing around with different settings such as the Base set of extensions in Extensions Manager, but it wasn't having any effect on my ability to run FrameMaker. It still ran fine.

I then decided to play around with some of the FrameMaker preferences. I have used FrameMaker to edit a lot of structured XML content such as DITA, so I normally run FrameMaker in Structured FrameMaker mode. I decided to switch to plain FrameMaker mode to see if that would have any effect. The next time I started FrameMaker, bang ... SheepShaver crashed. I tried several times to start FrameMaker, and it would crash SheepShaver every time. I removed the FrameMaker 7 Prefs file from the Preferences folder so that I would be prompted to choose which mode to run FrameMaker in the next time I launched it. I chose Structured FrameMaker mode, and I again had my stable FrameMaker running again. So the key seems to be to run in Structured FrameMaker mode.

You can still edit unstructured documents even if FrameMaker is set to Structured FrameMaker mode. Give that a shot and let me know what happens.
Not_a_Hero
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Re: Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by Not_a_Hero »

Brilliant! Thousand thanks! FM7 runs very robustly in the structured mode. For the first time I was able to quit the program and restart it several times is a row. It's a shame that software as good as FrameMaker has been abandoned for the Mac. As I mentioned earlier, there is nothing that allows the creation and editing of long and complicated documents so well. When a document gets long and has many graphics and tables, MS Word becomes so sluggish and crash-prone that one simply has to edit it in smaller sub-files.

BTW, I don't have a clue as to what structured mode is, and what it's used for.

I've only one issue left with FM7, which I'm sure is solvable by a bit or trial and error: not all the fonts that show up in OSX on my machine appear in OS9 under SheepShaver (they do when I run Windows software under Correspondence). Do you know an easy solution for this?

So now, thanks to SheepShaver, I'm able to run two software programs that should have not been abandoned for: FrameMaker and MacProject. As for the latter, it's also unfortunate that it should not have been continued on the Mac, as here is no project planning package that allows the visual use of PERT/CPM, which is particularly useful for the initial planning of a project, before a lot of people get involved when one needs very detailed planning and control on a collaborative basis that can be done software like MS Project. In contrast to that, MacProject is good for identifying the critical path and moving tasks and milestones around to generally improve planning. It's just to bad that not enough people felt a need for it. But, then...
Mr. Tamarin
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Re: Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by Mr. Tamarin »

Structured mode is used to edit SGML or XML documents. You can read about it in the FrameMaker help launched from the Help > Help Topics menu item. Look for the "Working with Structured Documents" topic.

As to the fonts, they are different because there are separate sets of fonts for the Mac OSX host system and the Mac OS 9 guest system. The Mac OSX fonts live in /Library/Fonts and the Mac OS 9 fonts live in /System Folder/Fonts. I don't believe the Open Type fonts (.otf extension) generally found on Mac OSX will work in the Mac OS 9 environment. You'll have to dig up some PostScript Type1 or some TrueType fonts for Mac OS 9 if the default fonts aren't what you want to use.
Not_a_Hero
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Re: Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by Not_a_Hero »

Thanks, I've got all sorts of fonts on the machine, going back all the way to when I was using OS6. And I also have software that can convert type. Just need the time to focus on this.
jrethorst
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Re: Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by jrethorst »

> I don't believe the Open Type fonts (.otf extension) generally found on Mac OSX will work in the Mac OS 9 environment.

They will if Adobe Type Manager (ATM) is installed. Latest/last version is 4.6.2a. Download free at Adobe's web site.

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adespoton
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Re: Getting FrameMaker 7 for Mac to run...

Post by adespoton »

There are also converters which will convert otf to ttf -- and then there's another Classic app that'll take flat ttf files and convert them to the resource-based Mac TrueType variant. Older Mac OSes can't read Windows .ttf files natively.
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