Login  •  Register


The time is now: Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:59 pm

Emaculation wiki  •  Delete all board cookies



Post new topic  Reply to topic Page 1 of 2 [ 28 posts ]    Go to page 1, 2  Next
Print view Previous topic  |  Next topic
Author Message
 Post subject: call me stupid
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 2:32 am 
but why is it that everything that works on linux is so complicated to install
why cant i just have a sheepshaver installer that i double click on then say install there and thats it why is it that i seem to have to go true command line
i know some will answer "hey if this is to hard for you dont use it "
but just to understand wouldnt help linux to be easier on its user, well at least make it more friendly for user who where born with the knowledge that if your jammed you can always tap ctrl-alt-del


Top
  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 2:43 am 
Offline
Forum All-Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 20, 2002 11:50 am
Posts: 1217
Location: Ouraion
I agree.

Linus Torvalds: Linux Desktop in 5 to 10 Years

"Linux creator Linus Torvalds spoke to Australian IT during his visit to Adelaide this week for Linux.conf.au, his second after attending last year's conference in Perth. Linus now says that while Linux is well deep into the server space and market, the home desktop will take 5 to 10 years to be equally competitive with other solutions."

http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=5707


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 4:41 am 
well, one reason is probably that linux lets you take and pick what you want. etc, you can choose weather or not to include pcmcia, and obiously you wouldnt install it if you had a desktop. Windows includes everything in the kernel, because you cant recompile it. they obiously wont give you the source ;). basically windows is clunky because everything, weather nessisary or not is loaded. all of the drivers are on the cd. there are hundreds of megabytes of drivers in the default windows install. the idea of linux is to keep everything minimal and clean. to only include what you need for YOUR system, and not to install unwanted things. chanses are you dont use even an 8th of the drivers that windows provides. why bother including them, if not everyone will use them. you get my drift. linux is a lot more stable because it is designed for what YOU want to run, and not a general purpose operating system to run everything by default.

But still, If you guys like point and click installs, you can use something like APT(a package manager that downloads all of the dependencies) or even better yet, gentoo(an operating system that compiles everything from scratch, and will also compile dependencies). This allows for ease of use, but still keeps everything for what you need to run.

Another possible reason for keeping everything seperate, is that different people work on everything. The whole point of linux is to be open source, and let people develop their own projects. For example the X team makes the x server for the window manager. However, the window manager(such as gnome's) team is different from the X team. If the two combined, then that would in a way be restricting KDE and so on ;). The whole point of linux is to allow lots of projects to exist, and let people choose what they like better, unlike winows, which makes you use their products and nothing else.

Hope that helps,
Mike


Top
  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 5:07 am 
thanx for your reply ill have a look at gentoo so far i have tried mandrake,redhat,suse,xandros and lindow so ill have a look at this one


Top
  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 8:17 am 
Offline
Forum All-Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 20, 2002 11:50 am
Posts: 1217
Location: Ouraion
I've tried numerous Linux distros out for both PC and Mac over the last couple years and haven't found a "perfect" Linux desktop yet. Once I put this Athlon XP system together, I'll be trying a few out. A number of people are praising Fedora core-based distros lately.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:34 pm 
I dont see what difference it makes what distribution is used. Mostly the differences in dists boil down to how the distribution is installed and package management. Linux is Linux. It is all fundamentally the same. Having tried various dists I have settled on Gentoo. As has been mentioned already it builds from source and takes care of dependencies. Sorry to burst any bubbles but using the command line is mandatory. This is the nature of Linux, or more specifically Unix in general.

Anyway, discussing what dist to use is a moot point. The original point that was made is along the lines of 'why is there no one click installer?'.

First, there is already an RPM available. That gives you a binary which you can install. That one click install is really down to how whatever file manager you use has integrations with RPM. Of course your distribution would need to be able to handle RPMs and you would need to have any requisite libraries installed. Not a ss problem. Just consider it fortunate that the author took the time to make RPMs available.

Second, there is an incredible variance in the versions of dependent libraries that can already be installed on a system. How to deal with that when there are lots of differing package management systems? What if a dependent library is not installed already? What to do then?

Third, ss is in a state of development and has not been officially 'released'. It is not a v1 application. If you want to be able to use it you need to get your hands dirty as you are standing on the bleeding edge. This is mostly the nature of open source. Checking out from cvs/building from source etc is pretty much as raw as you can get. If you want to have the *privilege* of this you need to take the time to learn. Only a bad workman blames his tools.

Fourth, the Linux/Unix way of doing things at this level, ie. building and installing ss or any program has not been designed to be difficult. Its just the way it is. As with most things its not difficult when you know how. Theres no conspiracy or anything.

Fifth, its free. What do you expect? Why not offer the author funding or someone who knows how to install it for you?


Top
  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:25 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 20, 2002 4:37 am
Posts: 3742
Location: Uiwang
Dig my new avatar.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:34 pm 
Anonymous wrote:
I dont see what difference it makes what distribution is used. Mostly the differences in dists boil down to how the distribution is installed and package management. Linux is Linux. It is all fundamentally the same. Having tried various dists I have settled on Gentoo. As has been mentioned already it builds from source and takes care of dependencies. Sorry to burst any bubbles but using the command line is mandatory. This is the nature of Linux, or more specifically Unix in general.

Anyway, discussing what dist to use is a moot point. The original point that was made is along the lines of 'why is there no one click installer?'.

First, there is already an RPM available. That gives you a binary which you can install. That one click install is really down to how whatever file manager you use has integrations with RPM. Of course your distribution would need to be able to handle RPMs and you would need to have any requisite libraries installed. Not a ss problem. Just consider it fortunate that the author took the time to make RPMs available.

Second, there is an incredible variance in the versions of dependent libraries that can already be installed on a system. How to deal with that when there are lots of differing package management systems? What if a dependent library is not installed already? What to do then?

Third, ss is in a state of development and has not been officially 'released'. It is not a v1 application. If you want to be able to use it you need to get your hands dirty as you are standing on the bleeding edge. This is mostly the nature of open source. Checking out from cvs/building from source etc is pretty much as raw as you can get. If you want to have the *privilege* of this you need to take the time to learn. Only a bad workman blames his tools.

Fourth, the Linux/Unix way of doing things at this level, ie. building and installing ss or any program has not been designed to be difficult. Its just the way it is. As with most things its not difficult when you know how. Theres no conspiracy or anything.

Fifth, its free. What do you expect? Why not offer the author funding or someone who knows how to install it for you?


wow dont take it like that i was just asking and dont worry i am getting my hand dirty
i just wanted to understand wasnt flaming or anything just asking and as for funding i am studying at the moment to become a machinist after that i am planning on starting my own business witch by the way cost a minimum of 50000$ to start due to the cost of the equipement but you can make sure that i would love to fund project like those
sorry if i offended you with my question but still thanx for your partially polite answer


Top
  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:57 pm 
Quote:
wow dont take it like that i was just asking and dont worry i am getting my hand dirty
i just wanted to understand wasnt flaming or anything just asking and as for funding i am studying at the moment to become a machinist after that i am planning on starting my own business witch by the way cost a minimum of 50000$ to start due to the cost of the equipement but you can make sure that i would love to fund project like those
sorry if i offended you with my question but still thanx for your partially polite answer

Dude or dudette, you asked a question. I gave you my opinion. The only value opinions have are the effect that we let them have on oneself in our own understanding. My statements are elaborated to help others who might make such naive judgements, so dont flatter yourself. You might need that someday when you are trying to impress someone for good reason, not someone on the internet who couldnt care less who you are and what you are about. None of this has been a personal attack and no offence has been taken on my part. Good luck in what you do.


Top
  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:10 pm 
sorry if my interpretation of your post was negative and i still appreciated the info i got from your post just tought it was a bit akward in the way it was said(or wrote in that case


Top
  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject: Complicated?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:59 am 
For most linux users, it's just a matter of:

1) Download the RPM package
2) Click on it
3) Click on the install button
4) Enter the root password

Seems pretty similar to what you said...

Well, okay, the average Windows user doesn't have to do that last step. But I'd say not having to reformat your system after opening the wrong e-mail attachment is worth having to enter the root password now and then.

-AT


Top
  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:21 pm 
Seems like you missed a few steps:
1) Download the RPM package
2) Click on it
3) Click on the install button
4) Enter the root password
5) "You are missing the most current GCC v.9.0.1.2.4.5.2.12.6.9.3b"
6) Search web for that GCC version
7) Click a broken link
8) Take a drink
9) Ask in a forum
10) Read 100 posts about how dumb you are for not knowing the secret FTP to get that version.
11) BUY WINDOWS YOU CHEAPO


Top
  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 12:40 am 
Offline
Apple Corer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 238
Windows is for Faggots and Sailors


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 8:26 am 
Offline
Master Emulator

Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 3:49 pm
Posts: 377
Location: Canada
phirkel wrote:
Windows is for Faggots and Sailors

wow i always wonder where you get those profoundly deep intellectual comment


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 2:41 am 
Offline
Apple Corer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 238
ataxy wrote:
phirkel wrote:
Windows is for Faggots and Sailors

wow i always wonder where you get those profoundly deep intellectual comment


My head, actually (the line is actually ripped, unceremoniously, from Stanley Kubrick's "Full Metal Jacket").

I'm not fond of windows. However, I also work for a manufacturer who makes CPUs for UNIX-based machines. So I guess I'm biased. However, that was mainly in reply to the post above mine.

It's really frustrating me when I keep seeing people whine about "Linux being difficult" etc.

It's got the same learning curve as Windows, especially if you choose a well-designed distro (which Fedora and RedHat aren't -- Debian and Gentoo-based distros are the best way to go because of their package managment). The difference, however, is that most of you have been using Windows since the days of Windows 3.1 (or possibly earlier), so you're not used to it.

It is a bit of effort to learn UNIX, and UNIX-like operating systems. However, it's no worse than learning DOS back in the late 80's or WIndows in the mid-90's.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:09 am 
Offline
Master Emulator

Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 3:49 pm
Posts: 377
Location: Canada
at last
http://www.bitrock.com/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:20 am 
Offline
Forum All-Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 20, 2002 11:50 am
Posts: 1217
Location: Ouraion
I saw that mentioned a few hours ago on some tech news site. This is cool except it's only an evaluation version of a retail product. :(


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 6:20 am 
Offline
Master Emulator

Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 3:49 pm
Posts: 377
Location: Canada
crack it ..... :lol:
no no its a joke :lol:
its a joke phirkel calm down now :lol:
8)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 6:52 am 
Offline
Forum All-Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 20, 2002 11:50 am
Posts: 1217
Location: Ouraion
Cracks are for the Foolish and the Sinners.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:04 am 
Offline
Master Emulator

Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 3:49 pm
Posts: 377
Location: Canada
hey hey dont get religous :lol:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:33 am 
Offline
Tinkerer
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 4:16 am
Posts: 62
I installed Mandrake for the purpose of running SheepShaver. After several hours of using a terminal and installing developer packages, I was still unable to do much of anything, including changing my monitor refresh rate.

BeOS now resides in Mandrake's place.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:58 pm 
Quote:
BeOS now resides in Mandrake's place.

LOLOL yeah BeOS r0x0rz


Top
  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:58 am 
Offline
Tinkerer
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 4:16 am
Posts: 62
iindigo wrote:
Quote:
BeOS now resides in Mandrake's place.

LOLOL yeah BeOS r0x0rz



I'm sorry I hurt your Linux feelings.

Also,
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:22 am 
I use linux and windows, and feel that even though Linux is much more stable, customizable, etc, etc. it simply lacks the "push" that windows give the less experienced users. A build of sheepshaver for windows would be nice though!


Top
  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 8:39 pm 
Offline
Apple Corer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 238
I miss BeOS :(

Those yellow tabs were so sexy...it really was innovative at the time, I found. The OS was stable! What an innovation!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote Post a reply  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic Page 1 of 2 [ 28 posts ]    Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
 

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group