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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:44 pm 
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I have upgraded to High Sierra. Still 32 bit, but I cannot save my MacProject file due to disk error. Any ideas?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:38 pm 
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Oh yes and now it is says the disk Unix cannot be used. It cannot be found.

Help?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:25 pm 
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somniferous wrote:
Oh yes and now it is says the disk Unix cannot be used. It cannot be found.

That message often appears when changes are made to preferences settings without the required subsequent quitting of SheepShaver and launching it again. Could that be what happened?

And where did you try to save your MacProject file?


Last edited by Ronald P. Regensburg on Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:47 pm 
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    Ronald P. Regensburg wrote:
    somniferous wrote:
    Oh yes and now it is says the disk Unix cannot be used. It cannot be found.

    That message often appears when changes are made to preferences settings without the required subsequent quitting of SheepShaver and launching it again. Could that be what happened?

    And where did you try to save your MacProject file?


    Yikes, I saved the reply to this message as a draft and I don’t know how to find it.

    I did make changes to preferences (many) before restarting. Now on restart I get two messages asking if the disk should be initialized before I can see the SS desktop.

    I was saving to a sub folder on the Unix disk.

    I had been able to save a teach text file to Unix and reopen it from the Sierra side. I am unable to save the MacProject file to the Sierra side and reopen it. It only works from the SS desktop.

    Where can I find that draft message?
    Thank you Ronald.


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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:28 pm 
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    The Unix disk is meant as a file transfer mechanism only; reading/writing from/to the disk from any application other than the Finder is buggy and may cause unexpected results.

    Those results include "disk errors" among other things.

    To get around this, you can create a Folder Actions AppleScript that will make the Finder move anything over that's written to a local folder.


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    PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:09 am 
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    adespoton wrote:
    The Unix disk is meant as a file transfer mechanism only; reading/writing from/to the disk from any application other than the Finder is buggy and may cause unexpected results.

    Those results include "disk errors" among other things.

    To get around this, you can create a Folder Actions AppleScript that will make the Finder move anything over that's written to a local folder.


    Thank you Adespoton. I can't say I know how to do this. I only use Sheepshaver because it has always allowed me to use MacProjectPro. I haven't had to write any scripts before. Any suggestions?


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    PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:47 am 
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    Easiest is to just save to the internal drive and manually copy the saved files over.

    If you want something automated, https://macscripter.net/viewtopic.php?id=22923 is a great place to start.


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    PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:47 am 
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    Tried saving to internal SS desktop and manually copying. That works with no disk error. That file becomes useless because it cannot be copied back to SS due to disk error


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    PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:02 pm 
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    Please be more specific: I suppose you saved to the SheepShaver desktop, then copied to the Unix disk. If you want to copy the file back to SheepShaver, do not try to move it from the Unix disk to the desktop, but copy it from the Unix disk to another mounted volume in SheepShaver.


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    PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:18 pm 
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    Ronald P. Regensburg wrote:
    Please be more specific: I suppose you saved to the SheepShaver desktop, then copied to the Unix disk. If you want to copy the file back to SheepShaver, do not try to move it from the Unix disk to the desktop, but copy it from the Unix disk to another mounted volume in SheepShaver.


    The reason for this is that if you look in your Shared folder, you'll find a Desktop folder. Moving files from the Unix disk to the desktop just moves them to that folder... which is still on the host and still has the same problems.


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    PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:57 pm 
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    What can I do to make the folder work as it used to? And eliminate the extra requests to initialize volumes?


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    PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:23 pm 
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    1. It may be impossible to make the shared folder work as it did before the upgrade to High Sierra. I suppose it is related to the new file system.

    2. The request to initialize a volume could be related to an erroneous entry in the volumes list in preferences.
    You can have us have a look at your settings if you post here the content of your prefs file:
    Open Terminal (in /Applications/Utilities/), and type at the prompt
    Code:
    open ~/.sheepshaver_prefs
    followed by a return.
    The file will open in your default text editor. Select all content, copy and paste it here in your reply.


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    PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:39 pm 
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    I figured out how to eliminate the extra initialization volumes.

    Then I tried to reinstall MacProjectPro. The first error was that the MacProjectPro help could not be replaced. The second error (when trying to install on the Unix volume) was "cannot install on Unix disk it is damaged" is that normal?


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    PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:41 pm 
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    Ronald P. Regensburg wrote:
    1. It may be impossible to make the shared folder work as it did before the upgrade to High Sierra. I suppose it is related to the new file system.

    2. The request to initialize a volume could be related to an erroneous entry in the volumes list in preferences.
    You can have us have a look at your settings if you post here the content of your prefs file:
    Open Terminal (in /Applications/Utilities/), and type at the prompt
    Code:
    open ~/.sheepshaver_prefs
    followed by a return.
    The file will open in your default text editor. Select all content, copy and paste it here in your reply.



    I didn't see your reply until after I posted about fixing the initializations.

    disk MacOS9
    disk AddedApps
    cdrom /dev/disk1
    extfs /Users/jb/Documents
    screen win/1024/768
    windowmodes 0
    screenmodes 0
    seriala /dev/cu.Bluetooth-Modem
    serialb /dev/null
    rom Mac OS ROM
    bootdrive 0
    bootdriver 0
    ramsize 536870912
    frameskip 1
    gfxaccel true
    nocdrom false
    nonet false
    nosound false
    nogui false
    noclipconversion false
    ignoresegv false
    ignoreillegal false
    jit true
    jit68k false
    keyboardtype 5
    ether slirp
    keycodes true
    keycodefile keycodes
    mousewheelmode 1
    mousewheellines 3
    dsp /dev/dsp
    mixer /dev/mixer
    ignoresegv false
    idlewait true


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    PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:52 pm 
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    somniferous wrote:
    I figured out how to eliminate the extra initialization volumes.

    Then I tried to reinstall MacProjectPro. The first error was that the MacProjectPro help could not be replaced. The second error (when trying to install on the Unix volume) was "cannot install on Unix disk it is damaged" is that normal?


    This is normal. You should not be trying to do anything with the Unix volume other than using the Finder to copy files from/to it. Running other software on the guest that writes to the Unix drive will result in this error.


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    PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:16 pm 
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    Quote:
    This is normal. You should not be trying to do anything with the Unix volume other than using the Finder to copy files from/to it. Running other software on the guest that writes to the Unix drive will result in this error.


    So does it make sense to try to delete and reinstall the software just in case the software will begin to communicate with the disk? I am a bit worried it may not reinstall correctly. Currently I can create a few workarounds and perhaps save all my SS data from MacProject Pro to the SS desktop. I hate to make things worse than they are. Although I would prefer it saved the files as it used to.


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    PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:25 pm 
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    adespoton wrote:
    Easiest is to just save to the internal drive and manually copy the saved files over.

    If you want something automated, https://macscripter.net/viewtopic.php?id=22923 is a great place to start.


    When you say save to the "internal drive" what do mean? When you say "manually copy over" how is that done?

    Thank you


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    PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:21 pm 
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    Your setup has two virtual drives in SheepShaver; one for OS 9, one for your other apps. These are where you do all your OS 9 stuff.

    If you need the file created by your application on the host machine, that's when you use the OS 9 Finder to copy it to the Unix drive so that it's available in the host's Documents folder.

    As for deleting the software: you might want to delete its' preferences file, but other than that I don't see a reason to remove and re-install, unless the installer does all sorts of extra path configuration, and you pointed it to use something in the Unix folder for this.


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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:52 pm 
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    adespoton wrote:
    Your setup has two virtual drives in SheepShaver; one for OS 9, one for your other apps. These are where you do all your OS 9 stuff.

    If you need the file created by your application on the host machine, that's when you use the OS 9 Finder to copy it to the Unix drive so that it's available in the host's Documents folder.

    As for deleting the software: you might want to delete its' preferences file, but other than that I don't see a reason to remove and re-install, unless the installer does all sorts of extra path configuration, and you pointed it to use something in the Unix folder for this.


    I feel out of my depth here. But again today I tried to use MacProject Pro. I don't know where to save my file. So I tried to create a new disk. This is what happened:

    When trying to mount a new disk or add new volume the error says "Unix disk cannot be found".
    Note that I created the disk from within preferences and restarted SS. This is when I got the error.

    When using preferences to add a new disk, the error at start up, and asks if the disk should be initialized. Clicking OK. SS gives statement Initializing will erase all information on this disk. The next error after agreeing to initialize is “Disk initialization failed because the disk is locked! Followed by an error “The disk “Unix” cannot be used because it cannot be found.” On restart “Unix” is available again. Or sometimes not. Only after removing the created disk does the Unix drive appear again.

    Not sure what is happening, but the configuration shared file is in Documents in my users folder. Which I notice that RR has said not to do. Is there an easy fix to move it without having to reload all the software?


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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:22 pm 
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    Based on your prefs file, these are the important lines:

    disk MacOS9
    disk AddedApps
    cdrom /dev/disk1
    extfs /Users/jb/Documents

    So according to that, you've got a boot disk named MacOS9 (oddly, no filename extension) a secondary disk named AddedApps (again no filename extension) a link to the physical CD ROM drive in your computer, and a Unix drive pointed at /Users/jb/Documents.

    First thing I'd recommend is creating a folder in your Documents folder called Transfer, and pointing your extfs to /Users/jb/Documents/Transfer.

    Any documents you want to transfer to your OS 9 SheepShaver setup from your host will go in the Transfer folder. Once in OS 9, you can open the Unix drive and copy those files out to either your MacOS9 or AddedApps drive.

    Likewise, when saving documents, save them to your MacOS9 or AddedApps drive, then use the OS 9 Finder to copy them to the Unix drive. Then you can grab them from the Transfer folder in your host to do whatever you want with them.

    Secondly, since you're obviously on OS X, that "cdrom" line won't work -- you can only point it at ISO images; it SheepShaver won't mount a physical CD on modern OS X.

    Third, it's probably a good idea to append .dmg to the end of your MacOS9 and AddedApps disk images, and change your prefs file to reflect the new names. Then you always have the option of just opening the disk images in OS X when SheepShaver isn't running, and you have access to all the files in those images.


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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:42 pm 
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    adespoton wrote:
    Based on your prefs file, these are the important lines:

    disk MacOS9
    disk AddedApps
    cdrom /dev/disk1
    extfs /Users/jb/Documents

    So according to that, you've got a boot disk named MacOS9 (oddly, no filename extension) a secondary disk named AddedApps (again no filename extension) a link to the physical CD ROM drive in your computer, and a Unix drive pointed at /Users/jb/Documents.

    First thing I'd recommend is creating a folder in your Documents folder called Transfer, and pointing your extfs to /Users/jb/Documents/Transfer.


    When using preferences to point the extfs to /Users/jb/Documents/Transfer, the error at start up states “This disk is unreadable by this computer. Do you want to initialize the disk?” and offers only the option ProDOS 0K if told OK and agreeing to the erasing all information on disk the error is: “Disk initialization failed because the disk is locked!” The after OK the error is: “The disk “Unix” cannot be used because it cannot be found.” Then no unix volume appears.


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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:05 pm 
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    somniferous wrote:
    adespoton wrote:
    Based on your prefs file, these are the important lines:

    disk MacOS9
    disk AddedApps
    cdrom /dev/disk1
    extfs /Users/jb/Documents

    So according to that, you've got a boot disk named MacOS9 (oddly, no filename extension) a secondary disk named AddedApps (again no filename extension) a link to the physical CD ROM drive in your computer, and a Unix drive pointed at /Users/jb/Documents.

    First thing I'd recommend is creating a folder in your Documents folder called Transfer, and pointing your extfs to /Users/jb/Documents/Transfer.


    When using preferences to point the extfs to /Users/jb/Documents/Transfer, the error at start up states “This disk is unreadable by this computer. Do you want to initialize the disk?” and offers only the option ProDOS 0K if told OK and agreeing to the erasing all information on disk the error is: “Disk initialization failed because the disk is locked!” The after OK the error is: “The disk “Unix” cannot be used because it cannot be found.” Then no unix volume appears.


    OK I had an error to where I had stored the folder. And I was using "Restart" and not "Shut down and then restarting" So the efts now points to the Transfer which is now empty.

    So then I saved a copy of MacProject file to it. Which worked. So if I need to make revisions to that file where can I put it so I reopen it from SS? The error I get if I try to open it from the Unix disk is: “Could not open “template” because of disk error” Oh yes and when I move it from "Transfer" back to the desktop the error is: "Could not open "Template" because of disk error". I need to be able to open and make revisions. This is key to the projects I work on.


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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:11 pm 
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    If you want to modify the file, you need to copy it back to an OS 9 virtual disk -- this would be one of the two I previously indicated, however you've named them internally in OS 9.


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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:22 pm 
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    adespoton wrote:
    Based on your prefs file, these are the important lines:

    disk MacOS9
    disk AddedApps
    cdrom /dev/disk1
    extfs /Users/jb/Documents

    So according to that, you've got a boot disk named MacOS9 (oddly, no filename extension) a secondary disk named AddedApps (again no filename extension) a link to the physical CD ROM drive in your computer, and a Unix drive pointed at /Users/jb/Documents.

    First thing I'd recommend is creating a folder in your Documents folder called Transfer, and pointing your extfs to /Users/jb/Documents/Transfer.

    Any documents you want to transfer to your OS 9 SheepShaver setup from your host will go in the Transfer folder. Once in OS 9, you can open the Unix drive and copy those files out to either your MacOS9 or AddedApps drive.


    adespoton wrote:
    Likewise, when saving documents, save them to your MacOS9 or AddedApps drive, then use the OS 9 Finder to copy them to the Unix drive. Then you can grab them from the Transfer folder in your host to do whatever you want with them.


    So the MacOS9 drive is the drive that appears when you install MacOS9. It has no vehicle I can see that allows it to transfer between the SSdesktop and the MacOSX desktop. Please advise.

    At any rate the way I use these files for MacProject Pro is that they are a representation of project I am working on. I normally saved them to the MacOSX and duplicated them when I wanted to make revisions. I worked (as far as I knew) right off the OSX document folder and all files would be opened and saved there. Now I must be able to revise them. But if moved to the unix file they become unusable. This could lead to a huge buildup of files in the SS that cannot be moved. When I am ready I print out the results using pdf creator. Or transfer the data using a text file to be moved to other software on the OSX. It seems that I am a bit too removed from my files. Even if backing them up they cannot seem to move away from SS. An odd place to leave my most important documents.

    Solution? Please advise.

    adespoton wrote:
    Secondly, since you're obviously on OS X, that "cdrom" line won't work -- you can only point it at ISO images; it SheepShaver won't mount a physical CD on modern OS X.


    Not sure what I should do about this.

    adespoton wrote:
    Third, it's probably a good idea to append .dmg to the end of your MacOS9 and AddedApps disk images, and change your prefs file to reflect the new names. Then you always have the option of just opening the disk images in OS X when SheepShaver isn't running, and you have access to all the files in those images.


    Will this allow back up of all the files? Even if I can open the disk images, they won't work without SS. Even if saved will these files always be accessible but not working? I wonder how will I work? Any ideas? Back to Sierra?


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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:07 pm 
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    I think you may be a bit confused about what you're doing when you emulate OS 9.

    On your physical computer, you run an operating system that ties all the physical parts together and enables you to operate other software.

    SheepShaver is the equivalent of that physical computer, but written in software so that it runs inside the physical computer's operating system.

    Instead of a physical hard drive like a computer has, SheepShaver uses files that are stored on the physical hard drive. We call these "disk images" because they are a snapshot of exactly what we'd see on an equivalent physical drive.

    So when you start up SheepShaver, it creates its virtual hardware, and one of the things it does is opens those disk image files as if they were physical drives. Once they're open, SheepShaver can read and write data there. Your MacOS9 drive is where the OS 9 operating system for the virtual computer (SheepShaver) is stored, and the operating system is loaded into SheepShaver's memory from this location, allowing SheepShaver to boot and display data on its virtual screen (which is then displayed on your computer's real screen).

    When you install software on SheepShaver, you're installing it on one of these virtual disks that is then saved as a file on your actual computer. Since SheepShaver treats this file as an actual hard drive, it can read/write to it, load applications into SheepShaver memory from it, and run software.

    When you save a file from an application running in SheepShaver, you should be saving it back to this virtual disk. The file that encompasses this disk is on your actual computer, so it is trivial to back up the entire file.

    OS X has the ability built-in to also mount these virtual disk images as actual disks -- Disk Utility (and it's back end software) is used to manage these images. So you can create a volume in SheepShaver, and if you save it in HFS+ format, which OS X also recognizes, you can then open the image in OS X and manipulate the files as you see fit.

    Because it's a bad idea to have this file open by both SheepShaver and OS X at the same time, and because SheepShaver also runs on Linux and Windows which can't read HFS+ disks, the authors of the software modified things slightly so that an actual folder on the host computer could be presented inside SheepShaver as a HFS+ disk. However, it isn't really an HFS+ disk, and so if anything unexpected is encountered when SheepShaver's OS's read and copy routines are accessing the disk, it will return an error and fail to work properly. The software enabling this feature was designed to work specifically with the OS 9 Finder, specifically for copying data files. Everything else that it does (like copying resource forks to HFS+ or APFS folders, etc.) is purely a bonus that may or may not work.


    So here's how things are laid out:

    Your Computer
    |
    Your computer's Hard Disk
    |
    Your OS 9 disk image file


    Your computer's memory
    |
    Running SheepShaver -- a subroutine that can read/write "file" objects to a folder on your computer's hard disk.
    |
    A direct connection to your OS 9 disk image file


    So when running SheepShaver, you work on the virtual computer, and ignore your real computer. If you want to copy something off of SheepShaver, you have two options: save it to the virtual "Unix" disk, or shut down SheepShaver, and open up the virtual OS 9 disk in OS X.

    If you want to back everything up, use Time Machine or some other backup software to back up the disk image. You can then revert to earlier versions of this disk image to load OS 9 and all the applications/files in that earlier state. It's just like making complete copies of your hard drive over time, and having them all available if you want to roll something back.

    If you want to back up only a specific file, you copy it to the host computer and back it up like any other file.

    Alternatively, CharlesSoft (Charles is a member on these forums) has generously made their OS 9-era backup software free for use, meaning that you could create another virtual disk image, load it into SheepShaver as well, and use the OS 9 backup software to back up files inside that environment to the secondary disk image. Your host computer, if you've got Time Machine running, will automatically back up all of these disk images again, every time they are modified.


    Does that all make sense?


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