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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:29 pm 
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Mac Mechanic

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Here's a theoretical:

I'd like to experiment with running the same HD image from both XP and Mandrake Linux (dual-boot setup). I have a FAT32 partition for swapping files between the two, and I thought about moving the .IMG to there so I could install PPC on Mandrake and run the same IMG.

Just as a general question to any here who might know about such things, do you know of this posing a threat to the integrity of the IMG if I was using it alternately from different hosts, or with having it on FAT32 generally?

I'm mostly curious because I notice the IMG currently on XP's (primary) C drive is heavily fragmented after some use, and can't be defragmented. My plan is increase the E drive (FAT32) to about 3.5Gb, then it can't fragment too much. That's the theory anyway... Has anyone tried something like this and can report results?[/u]


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:56 pm 
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Operating systems will write blocks of data to different locations on the hard drive according to the algorithms that they use to determine the write location. Overall though, the filesystem is probably more important, and FAT partitions are particularly prone to becoming defragmented.

If you are having problems defragmenting, you might consider moving the image from one drive to another, defragmenting the drive you moved from and then moving back. The image file that you move back should then be less fragmented.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:35 pm 
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I see. I certainly do recall lots of fun with the GF's Win ME defragging and having to quit to do ScanDisk, then restarting ScanDisk several times before completion.

The problem with juggling the IMG around between partitions is that all this is happening on a 30Gb laptop with an already-bulky XP install - when I setup mandrake I left about 17.5Gb for XP which is crammed with program files. Adding the IMG there just about maxed it out, and the fragmentation makes the problem worse. So in my planned scenario, wherever I make room for it, is where it stays. I'll be backing-up into a RAR file and onto a CD, provided this is still possible as the amount of content on the IMG grows.

I can't do much about the partition being FAT, because Linux can't reliably write to NTFS.

On a slight tangent, how do you go about defragging a Mac, and would that help with the RAR-compressed size?


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 Post subject: sharing hd-images
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:21 am 
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Hello,

I already tried to share the image on a fat32 partition a "long" time ago. It didn't work. I used Windows XP Pro and Mandrake 10.

I wrote this on the 12th of may: "Also, take care about putting hd image files on fat32 partitions. Use NTFS instead." And that was because I couldn't start ppc from the image on the fat32 partition.

Somehow a 2 gb limit seemed to spoil the party.
I've seen problems getting a 3 gb image from a PC running windows 2003 server with only ntfs partitions using ftp from Mandrake 10. Transfer went bust when using Mozilla or Kbear. But not when using Konquerer.

But if you get it to work, please let us know how you did it.

Cat_7


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:34 am 
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Cat_7, can you tell me what you mean by a 2Gb limit? I'll go try and find your other thread to see if it's explained. You didn't make a 2Gb image, did you? (That definitely wouldn't work.)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:44 am 
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Okay, I see what you mean about 2GB now. FAT16 has that limit, FAT32 is 4GB. I'll have to give it a try now anyway, I got impatient and went ahead with the resize 8O

I'll let you know...


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:47 am 
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OK so far. Haven't tried any intensive write-to-disk ops, but it extracted okay onto the partition and booted fine from the PPC installed on C-drive.

Now to cause chaos trying to run it from Mandrake...


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:59 pm 
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i thought fat32 had a 130tb partition size limit (are you talking about the file size limit? 4gb is more than 3...)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:44 pm 
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Hello,

I didn't mean a 2 gb partition limit.

At home I had and have a 3 gb ppc hd-image on a shared fat 32 partition I wanted to share from windows and linux. It didn't work. I had to copy the hd image file.
At work I tried to move a 3 gb image from a machine with only ntfs-drives to a mandrake machine through ftp. This didn't work for the programs I mentioned. A 2 gb partition limit doesn't apply for ntfs or reiserfs or ext3, but the ftp protocol or clients might have problems with files larger then 2 gb.

Best,

Cat_7


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 4:11 am 
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Cat_7, thanks for the heads-up about FTP problems (though I doubt I'll be using the Mac for that, it's mostly about website testing for me).

Can you tell us more about the problems you had with sharing the IMG on the FAT32 partition? Did it bork the IMG totally, like make it unbootable or such? Or did PPC just refuse to load it at all, and if so was this occurring in Win, Lin or both?

It's too late for me to back out now without doing a reinstall of both (or all 3) OSes, but I'd sure like to hear more in detail about your experiences with this setup. I've got other fish to fry before I start getting into PPC from the Linux end, so I hope you have time to tell me more.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 8:42 am 
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may be linux has problems with fat32 on linux... :?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 9:13 am 
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Hello,

The image I tried to share shure looked OK, but I just wasn't able to boot from it from within the "foreign" operating system (I kept it on a fat32 partition create by windows). So it didn't get bOrken. Ppc, from within Mandrake, didn't do anything with it, so it still was OK for ppc from windows.

But you might get better results....

Cat_7


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:08 pm 
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Well, I'll make that my next-but-one Linux challenge; right now I'm busy wrestling with a proprietary wireless card :evil:

I take it you've run the same image successfully in a control scenario (same PPC, same configs) on Linux partition?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 9:36 pm 
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If your linux partition is Ext2 or Ext3 you can mount it read/write in windows with a certain programs...that would be your best bet...that way you can use it in both Windows and Linux

Paragon makes software that will mount your linux partition as a drive in windows...it's not free....but i'm sure there is a nice open source porg that works similar

There is read/write support for NTFS available...thanks to a prog called Captive-ntfs....although it's very slow

I'd stick with a linux filesystem..that way you won't have to deal with fragmentation


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 Post subject: controlled environment
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:34 am 
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Yes and No,

A controlled environment is difficult to create: I build my own linux versions from cvs, but not the windows versions. And, of course, you have to adapt the config file to reflect the differences between win and lin.

But, as far as I know, the two were comparable. Anyhow, I still think my problem was with the 3 gb file that wouldn't get read from the fat32 partition. Somehow I don't think ppc was to blame for that.

The copy of the image I made worked exactly the same on linux as the original I left on the windows partition.

I guess the only thing left now for you to do is to try for yourself.....good luck ! And please report back.

Best,
Cat_7


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:51 pm 
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rudefyet wrote:
If your linux partition is Ext2 or Ext3 you can mount it read/write in windows with a certain programs...


I wouldn't recommend using anything that gave write access to another operating system's partition, as this runs the risk of making that operating system unusable if anything goes wrong.

I don't know if there is any good solid software out there that I would trust.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:50 am 
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What he said. I don't really need or want to be able to delve into the Linux partition from Windows - too paranoia-inducing because I really don't trust Kermit to know what to do with anything in there. It's enough to be able to read /mnt/windows from Linux, though I can't write to it.

The FAT32 partition is handling PPC okay so far - just did a fair bit of downloading and installing and all seems well. Still not ready for the Linux experiment yet, but watch this space.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:15 pm 
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i would not mount the linux partition in windows because i don't trust windows.

BTW why do you want to load pearpc from 2 different os's?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 9:05 pm 
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PPC_Digger wrote:
i would not mount the linux partition in windows because i don't trust windows.

BTW why do you want to load pearpc from 2 different os's?


Windows does not allow you to mount a linux partition - you need 3rd party software to mount a linux partition - so it isn't Windows you should worry about.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 10:06 pm 
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i still don't trust windows :D


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:05 am 
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Update, I've just booted into Mac from Mandrake. Not planning any major file-ops right now, but the system just finished installing the JDK update I downloaded last session (from Windows) and that seemed to go fine.

Only difference I notice is the grey apple screen stays up throughout initialization, I don't get the 'verbose' console outpouring as in Win startup. Not that i understood any of that anyway...

I guess long-term usage will be the test. Now if I can just figure out how to replicate the Win internet connection sharing setup...

NOT getting into that one at this hour, thankyou.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:16 pm 
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just comment out the prom_env_machargs = "-v" on the machine on which it showes the verbose startup.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:57 pm 
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Excellent, thanks. Hey, did the board crash? I couldn't connect for ages?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:27 am 
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Just to say it's been over a month now and integrity is still fine, no issues and getting great speed now on 0.4pre (SDL+Altivec). Oh, and I missed answering this one earlier:

PPC_Digger wrote:
BTW why do you want to load pearpc from 2 different os's?


Because I can. :roll:

Well, really just my obsession with interoperability. I've been dual-booting for a good while now but had a big ol' sharing partition that wasn't being used for much. I had my webserver root there for a while, but I still had to double-up on some of my PHP scripts because of the different path syntax. So, what better to share than a whole OS? Especially with the ongoing 'mystery' of fluctuating Linux-vs-Windows host emulation speeds in pearPC, I guess I'm contributing to an ongoing study of that.

And, yeah... because I can.


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