Apple and Intel?

About PearPC, a PPC Mac emulator for Windows and Linux that can run MacOS X up to 10.4.

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robojam
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Apple and Intel?

Post by robojam »

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gb
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Post by gb »

This doesn't make sense. Do you mean Apple would start using CPUs they have been bashing for years in their pseudo-benchmarks? I don't think so.

Instead, the most probable thing is that they would be using Intel Xscale (ARM) processors for some new PDA?
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Post by robojam »

I don't mean anything - I'm just providing the link. What it means is beyond me.
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Post by robojam »

Here's an update on possibilities, and an emulator is mentioned:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cmp/20050528/tc ... MlJVRPUCUl
Once you've made something idiot proof, they go and invent a better idiot!
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Post by Havin_it »

The emulator bit is interesting. So Intel have their own emulator, on a chip? And it has (speculatively) only a 4-7% performance hit?

Guys, we've got to get us a mole inside Intel.
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Post by gb »

I don't see where this rumor could come from either. Nowadays, Intel tends to providing JITs in software form, e.g. IA-32 EL to replace the aging and suboptimal ia32 emulator in ia64 chips.

That guy probably confused the Intel's VMX extension for x86 virtualization, which is different from what IBM usually names AltiVec as VMX. Thusly, this has nothing to do with PowerPC.
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Post by trygvebw »

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Post by ataxy »

yeah well it seem will be fix about that rumour on monday
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Post by gb »

Now this has been confirmed, here are some hints you probably came by in the past. ;-)

* GCC was improved lately in various Apple internal branches
<http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2005-03/msg01704.html>
<http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2005-04/msg01233.html>
something you don't focus on if you are not considering at a whole OS basis (above kernel).

* IIRC, on one of the previous/old Intel VT slides, there was also a mention of MacOS X as a guest OS.
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Post by trygvebw »

ataxy wrote:yeah well it seem will be fix about that rumour on monday
The end.
http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=10765
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Post by Marc »

Very, very strange that Apple would announce this a year before it is happening. Who is going to buy a PowerPC Mac now? Even it's makers don't have faith in the platform and they are expecting the potential buyer to?

Apple say that they will prevent generic PCs running OS X but I'm sure that an emulator will quickly pop up allowing us to run OS X natively from within Windows, like MoL does just now or ShapeShifter done on the 68k Amiga. There will be sure to be hectic hacking to get OS X to natively boot on any x86 system.

If Apple can tightly control the bios/chipset or whatever measure they will use to prevent booting of OS X on any random x86 system, then nothing will change, except you will be able to buy a Mac from apple and have Windows, OS X and x86 Linux on one platform.
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Post by Yukon Kid »

well that is one reason I liked apple, you could have macos, windows, and linux running.
but only 2 would be native.
oh well!!!
I can see trouble down the road with the endless number of add on pci cards. the thing I hated about the x86 market to begin with. all the fussing to get something to work. even with xp, although I admit it has gotten more mac like in the last bit.
now those troubles are not because of the cpu.
The next thing that I will worry about is the virus arena, too many intel hackers for my liking, that will drive the mac market crazy.
All in all I think it is good news, until I can no longer get upgrades to my dual g5....
hmmmmm marketing strategy, I will have to buy a new computer before 10 yrs are up..... bummer
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Post by CaptainValor »

GLORY BE! YESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!

Ok, this is the news I've been waiting for hear for years. I'm so stoked. :mrgreen:

So I guess this means PearPC will be useless in a year? :(
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Post by PPC_Digger »

TOLD YOU! I so told you. I knew there is OSX for PC hidden somewhere in a secret Apple safe. How do you think they "created" OSX for intel so quickly? Because they already had it.
Finally they resurrected project "Star Trek".
I hope that the Intel Mac won't be x86, because x86 is old, very old. It should have died long ago, but Microsoft kept it alive. I also hope Intel will provide good stuff, or the Mac will die. This is the place to make the Mac future. Either that desicion made the Mac the dominent platform, or it has killed it completely.
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Post by Mac Emu »

Marc wrote:Very, very strange that Apple would announce this a year before it is happening. Who is going to buy a PowerPC Mac now? Even it's makers don't have faith in the platform and they are expecting the potential buyer to?
Job's reality distortion field went critical I'm guessing. We are supposed to be able to get them by 6/6/6. Buy the Developer Transition Kit for $999 while you're waiting to receive the Macintel.
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Post by PPC_Digger »

Does anyone know if the processor inside the Mac/Intel is a standard Xeon/P4?
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Post by CaptainValor »

I'm more interested in getting a copy of x86 OSX. 8O
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Post by PPC_Digger »

CaptainValor wrote:I'm more interested in getting a copy of x86 OSX. 8O
Me too. You could always buy the development system for 999$. Pretty cheap for a Power Mac. Even an Intel-based one. If you want, we could split the price 50:50, you get OSX and I get the Mac :lol: /
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Post by Kakaze »

You have to be a developer to get one of the developer PowerMacs for 999 and then you have to give it back at the end of 06.
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Post by robojam »

CaptainValor wrote:I'm more interested in getting a copy of x86 OSX. 8O
I don't know if that's how it's going to work. I think the idea is to create a version of OSX that will run on standard Mac hardware with the only difference being the processor that it runs on. Therefore, if you tried installing it on say, a standard Dell, it would shit out from the word go.
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Post by ehabouf »

I don't think so,
To use x86 processor you must use the same hardware arechtecture (Motherboards, rams ... etc)
Nothing prevent you from using maxos86 with other systems other than vioalting the license (macos laicense only for apple computers)
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Post by Marc »

ehabouf wrote:I don't think so,
To use x86 processor you must use the same hardware arechtecture (Motherboards, rams ... etc)
Nothing prevent you from using maxos86 with other systems other than vioalting the license (macos laicense only for apple computers)
:idea:

You can't just drop Windows CD and install on Xbox, which is an x86 based system, can you? There are ways to stop you doing it, custom BIOS, mac specific chips that no other PC has accessed during boot sequence...
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Post by ehabouf »

Xbox is a closed system, which means special GPU, special drive ... etc
No way to make it use any graphics card thru PCI/AGP bus and general IDE connection and don't be able to run the os for it with standrad system
C+O+M+P+U+T+E+R = and must = COMPUTER :lol:
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Post by Marc »

You are therefore defeating your own argument. You initially say:
To use x86 processor you must use the same hardware arechtecture (Motherboards, rams ... etc)
Then you say:
Xbox is a closed system, which means special GPU, special drive ... etc
No way to make it use any graphics card thru PCI/AGP bus and general IDE connection and don't be able to run the os for it with standrad system

Meaning you agree that you can use an x86 CPU in a system which is not fully compliant with the 'Windows Compatible' PCs that you say 'must' be able to boot into MacOS when they release an x86 based system.

Apple can release a unique piece of hardware based on an x86 CPU and thus stop different hardware configurations being able to use the OS.

As a side note, I am playing devil's advoate, as I totally expect it (MacOS x86) to be hacked to be able to run on ordinary windows whiteboxes, at the very least through a VM transparently using the CPU or, ideally, being fully bootable.
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Post by Mac Emu »

Unless maybe hardware activation is required for future Mac OS X versions, I could see a full speed Mac virtual machine being created for Windows.

And visa-versa ... a fast virtual machine for running Windows, Linux, etc. on a x86 (or whatever) based Macintel. Maybe Microsoft's VPC for Mac will run OSes on a Macintel at full speed.
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