Trying to install netatalk on OS X

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mabam
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Trying to install netatalk on OS X

Post by mabam »

I tried to install netatalk on OS X 10.8.5 as suggested in this post. I want to use it for printing so I don't have to start up a VM every time I want to print.

When I used MacPorts a few days ago I got an error message in my log which is the same as reported in ticket https://trac.macports.org/ticket/36672. This issue has been fixed by revising https://trac.macports.org/browser/trunk ... k/Portfile.
Now I get a different error, the same as reported at https://trac.macports.org/ticket/36674. I also reported this via the MacPorts-users mailing list but have not received any response. So it doesn't look like it is going to work using MacPorts.

I have also fiddled with Homebrew but can't figure out how to do it. I got as far as

Code: Select all

brew create http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/netatalk/netatalk-3.1.7.tar.gz
and then opened the resulting netatalk.rb in a text editor and added the homepage. But once I do

Code: Select all

brew install -i netatalk
I get "Error: Empty installation".
I have never compiled anything before so I don't really know what is happening.

Is there anybody who could help me in this step by step or possibly create netatalk as a Homebrew package?
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Re: Trying to install netatalk on OS X

Post by adespoton »

The last time I installed it I used MacPorts; I've got quite a backlog of projects so probably won't get to creating a homebrew version any time soon. Anyone else have the time to get this working?
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Re: Trying to install netatalk on OS X

Post by mabam »

I just realized that support for AppleTalk over DDP (required for AppleTalk printers not capable of IP, and for connections with Mac OS up to version 7.5.x) has been removed from Netatalk since version 3.0.
(This can be verified on this chart and by the fact that, contrary to the v. 2.2 documentation, "Setting up the PAP print server" is not described in the Netatalk v. 3.0 documentation anymore.)

So in case anyone has the time and would be willing to compile a Homebrew package: Netatalk 2.2.5 is the last version supporting 'classic' AppleTalk (that is, via DDP). It can be found at http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/neta ... 2.5.tar.gz.

I would be very thankful for any efforts in this matter!
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Re: Trying to install netatalk on OS X

Post by NucAr »

If you want to get this project going quickly, I'd recommend running Netatalk in a Linux distribution such as Debian or Ubuntu (in a virtual machine). These distributions compile and manage the software for you, and as you can see from their package databases (Debian, Ubuntu), they're still using Netatalk 2.2.5 or lower, even in the unstable test releases. I don't know why, but perhaps it's precisely to maintain the classic AppleTalk support.
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Re: Trying to install netatalk on OS X

Post by mabam »

Presently I'm actually using a Win XP VM with some files from Win 2000 added to the system folder so it understands AppleTalk. But a VM is what I actually would like to get rid of.

And as classic AppleTalk is what was used up to Mac OS 7.5.x, this might be interesting to other members and visitors of this forum too.
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Re: Trying to install netatalk on OS X

Post by adespoton »

Indeed; it would be nice to have netatalk 2.2.5 as an installable package to act as a companion for Basilisk II (and for Shoebill when it gets official networking). The package would have to support 10.6 through 10.10+ -- I think that should be doable.
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Re: Trying to install netatalk on OS X

Post by mabam »

Well, I confused something (as I do more often … :oops:): The parts of the former AppleTalk stack that are still used nowadays – AFP for example – are not referred to as AppleTalk anymore.

I now understand that information on Netatalk is referring to 'AppleTalk' as exactly that part of the protocol stack that has been removed from OS X since version 10.6. That part is DDP, which has been substituted for TCP/IP.
Netatalk itself never included DDP but relied on the system kernel to provide it. As OS X kernels don't have that anymore since Snow Leopard (just as almost every recent version of the numerous UNIX and UNIX-like systems, as it seems), Netatalk (also version 2.2.5 if used on SL and up) can only operate via TCP/IP.
See http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/neta ... 2.5.tar.gz and within that /doc/README.AppleTalk for reference.


However, it seems that CAP (Columbia AppleTalk Package) does provide DDP.
CAP is actually quite old and hasn't been updated since years, final version being 6.0. But as the full source code is available I wonder whether it could be compiled into something that can be installed on present versions of OS X. I had nothing to loose, so I tried it with Homebrew. But as I didn't know what I was doing I ended up with an "empty installation" error (just as I did with Netatalk one week ago).

At http://web.archive.org/web/200602160132 ... P50.README there's a TODO list (towards the end of the page) that mentions DDP to be included. When that list got published some stuff was not fully finished. But it refers to version 5.0. I suppose things were finished in 6.0.
EDIT: The file is named "cap50.readme", but its content is the one of version 6.0. It says DDP is "essentially completed, but some minor parts missing". Might still work though. Would depend on someone testing it.

There is also an FAQ at http://www.ralentz.com/old/mac/faqs/source/cap.html .

More information on CAP incl. FTP-server addresses for download is provided at http://web.archive.org/web/200602070944 ... k/cap.html .
At time of writing this post none of the servers worked. But earlier this week one of them did. It was dead slow, so downloading ~17 MB must have taken an hour or so. For anyone interested: I have zipped the files and uploaded to https://www.dropbox.com/s/c0dozjc07prcg5m/cap.zip?dl=0 .


Now I wish I'd know how to compile. Maybe it will be possible for someone else to spend time on this in the near future.
I'd be very grateful!
Last edited by mabam on Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:58 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Trying to install netatalk on OS X

Post by adespoton »

Wow! Thanks for doing the legwork!

I'm thinking we may want to get that source set up on Github if the license allows it. It sounds like netatalk might be useless for us from now on, as if the kernel isn't supplying the needed code and most users of netatalk don't need the old DDP bits, implementation is unlikely.

Anyone up for taking this on?
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Re: Trying to install netatalk on OS X

Post by mabam »

http://web.archive.org/web/200602160132 ... P50.README contains some information on copyright.
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Re: Trying to install netatalk on OS X

Post by mabam »

I'm not sure what needs to be written in the license for the source to be set up on Github. Is it fine according to what p50.readme in my last post says? 'Cause if it is I will try to set it up on Github.
I suppose I should apply the remaining patches first?
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CAP 6.0 set up on GitHub

Post by mabam »

After checking the license information of the different parties formerly involved in CAP, I have now set up the repository on GitHub: https://github.com/mabam/CAP .

The original download of CAP from the FTP server also included a number of tools to be used with CAP. These should not be needed for our purposes (simple networking and printing).

However, according to http://web.archive.org/web/200602091549 ... EADME.html "CAP with UAR provides a similar functionality to CAP in Native EtherTalk mode, but on a wider variety of host types." So in case UAB (included in CAP for Native EtherTalk – which we need 'cause for wired networks we all use ethernet nowadays) doesn't work on OS X, UAR might be an alternative. For the FTP download link see the website above.

The license says that "UAR may NOT be publicly redistributed … without the permission of the copyright owner". I have therefore deleted "cap.zip" from dropbox.com as it included all the tools. CAP itself is now on GitHub anyway. If it turns out that we need UAR, please let me know. I'm happy to ask for permission to upload the source on GitHub. The software is now almost 20 years old, so it would not surprise me if permission would be granted.
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Re: Trying to install netatalk on OS X

Post by mabam »

Bump.
On Mar 9 2015 adespoton wrote:Indeed; it would be nice to have netatalk 2.2.5 as an installable package to act as a companion for Basilisk II (and for Shoebill when it gets official networking). The package would have to support 10.6 through 10.10+ -- I think that should be doable.
Well, as turned out shortly after that post we don't need netatalk (due to missing DDP support) but CAP. The question remaines though:
On Mar 13 2015 adespoton wrote:Anyone up for taking this on?
Last edited by mabam on Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trying to install netatalk on OS X

Post by adespoton »

We may need to take this to a larger audience than E-Maculation. There must be someone somewhere with this itch to scratch and the time to update netatalk....
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mabam
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Re: Trying to install CAP on OS X

Post by mabam »

adespoton, I edited my previous post while you wrote yours.
When I started this thread it was about netatalk. That changed to CAP as netatalk doesn't provide DDP support. But as I can't change the thread's title to CAP anymore it is misleading. Sorry!
I now have at least changed the title of this post.

Does anyone have an idea how to reach that larger audience?

According to a link cat_7 recently posted, a new version of Shoebill is out: http://emaculation.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 300#p51164
It now supports Ethernet with TAP. I suppose this means it can now speak AppleTalk via DDP.
As adespoton said before, AppleTalk (DDP) on OS X could act as a companion for Basilisk II and Shoebill.
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Re: Trying to install CAP on OS X

Post by mabam »

I've also found "CAPer", an installer and GUI for CAP written for NeXTStep.
As OS X is based on NeXTStep, maybe this can be used as a starting point for a new installer and GUI once CAP is (hopefully) ported to OS X.

More information and the source code for CAPer V9A can be found here: http://www.wizards.de/~frank/next_cap.html.
The source also includes CAP. But it doesn't have the patches for compatibility with Mac OS 8+ applied. See https://github.com/mabam/CAP for a fully patched version.
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