Apple switches to Intel.

Anything not about Mac emulation.

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tomaszjc7
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Apple switches to Intel.

Post by tomaszjc7 »

I'm assusming this is good news for emulation.
Marc
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Post by Marc »

Indeed, it would mean that OS X emulation could natively use the CPU like MoL does. However, the best hack woul dbe to allow generic systems to natively boot OS X.
Mac Emu
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Post by Mac Emu »

From Apple's website: http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/jun/06intel.html

Apple to Use Intel Microprocessors Beginning in 2006
WWDC 2005, SAN FRANCISCO-June 6, 2005-At its Worldwide Developer Conference today, Apple(r) announced plans to deliver models of its Macintosh(r) computers using Intel(r) microprocessors by this time next year, and to transition all of its Macs to using Intel microprocessors by the end of 2007. Apple previewed a version of its critically acclaimed operating system, Mac OS(r) X Tiger, running on an Intel-based Mac(r) to the over 3,800 developers attending CEO Steve Jobs' keynote address. Apple also announced the availability of a Developer Transition Kit, consisting of an Intel-based Mac development system along with preview versions of Apple's software, which will allow developers to prepare versions of their applications which will run on both PowerPC and Intel-based Macs.

"Our goal is to provide our customers with the best personal computers in the world, and looking ahead Intel has the strongest processor roadmap by far," said Steve Jobs, Apple's CEO. "It's been ten years since our transition to the PowerPC, and we think Intel's technology will help us create the best personal computers for the next ten years."

"We are thrilled to have the world's most innovative personal computer company as a customer," said Paul Otellini, president and CEO of Intel. "Apple helped found the PC industry and throughout the years has been known for fresh ideas and new approaches. We look forward to providing advanced chip technologies, and to collaborating on new initiatives, to help Apple continue to deliver innovative products for years to come."

"We plan to create future versions of Microsoft Office for the Mac that support both PowerPC and Intel processors," said Roz Ho, general manager of Microsoft's Macintosh Business Unit. "We have a strong relationship with Apple and will work closely with them to continue our long tradition of making great applications for a great platform."

"We think this is a really smart move on Apple's part and plan to create future versions of our Creative Suite for Macintosh that support both PowerPC and Intel processors," said Bruce Chizen, CEO of Adobe.

The Developer Transition Kit is available starting today for $999 to all Apple Developer Connection Select and Premier members. Further information for Apple Developer Connection members is available at developer.apple.com. Intel plans to provide industry leading development tools support for Apple later this year, including the Intel C/C++ Compiler for Apple, Intel Fortran Compiler for Apple, Intel Math Kernel Libraries for Apple and Intel Integrated Performance Primitives for Apple.

Intel (www.intel.com), the world's largest chip maker, is also a leading manufacturer of computer, networking and communications products.

Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple II and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh. Today, Apple continues to lead the industry in innovation with its award-winning desktop and notebook computers, OS X operating system, and iLife and professional applications. Apple is also spearheading the digital music revolution with its iPod portable music players and iTunes online music store.

From OSNews.com: http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=10765

CONFIRMED: Apple to use Intel Chips - *updated*
"Mac OS X has been leading a secret double life. There have been rumors to this effect... We've had teams working on the 'just in case' scenario." said Steve Jobs. Apple will ship a Mac with Intel processors by June 6th, 2006, as reports said. It should be complete by June 2007. Says that Intel offers a better roadmap for the markets that Apple services. Jobs talked about IBM missing the 3 GHz mark for the G5 and not being able to put one in a PowerBook. Today's WWDC demonstration has been done entirely on an Intel Mac Xeon-P4. Developers applauded Steve when he said that both processors would be supported for a long time and the core to this will be universal binaries. 'Rosetta' will allow PowerPC compiled apps to work on an Intel Mac. UPDATE: After Jobs' presentation, Apple Senior Vice President Phil Schiller addressed the issue of running Windows on Macs, saying there are no plans to sell or support Windows on an Intel-based Mac. "That doesn't preclude someone from running it on a Mac. They probably will," he said. "We won't do anything to preclude that." However, Schiller said the company does not plan to let people run Mac OS X on other computer makers' hardware. "We will not allow running Mac OS X on anything other than an Apple Mac."

6/6/6 Huh? Yeah, that sounds like a Steve decision.
tomaszjc7
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This is great.

Post by tomaszjc7 »

Apple CEO Steve Jobs took the stage Monday morning at the company's Worldwide Developer Conference (WWDC) and confirmed what was once unthinkable: Apple will be switching from IBM PowerPC chips to Intel's x86 processor line.

The next release of Mac OS X, called Leopard, will usher in the new generation of Apple computers. Jobs said the primary reason for the change was that Apple wants the best computers for end users, and Intel's roadmap "is exceptional" while PowerPC products have lagged.

The transition will not happen overnight, Jobs explained, saying it will take two years comprised of two major challenges. The first will be making Mac OS X work on Intel-based x86 processors, but Jobs wowed WWDC attendees by announcing all of the demos he had performed were actually on an Intel machine.

Apple has been compiling Mac OS X on x86 processors for 5 years Jobs said, adding that by this time next year, Apple hopes to ship the first Macs with Intel chips.

Developers will not have too tough a time, Jobs promised. Those applications based on Apple's latest Cocoa architecture will require only minor tweaks and can be ready for Intel machines in a few days. Carbon-based applications will take a bit longer to convert, but Apple has released an updated version of the Xcode development platform to ease the transition.

Apple has created a "universal binary" structure that works on both PowerPC and x86 to additionally make things easier for developers. The universal binaries will enable both processors to be supported for a long time to come, Jobs said.

A technology to translate PowerPC binaries into Intel-compatible code, known as "Rosetta," will also be available. The feature will be transparent to end users, who can open applications that have not been migrated to Intel.

Partners such as Adobe have already pledged support for the move. "We think this is a really smart move on Apple's part and plan to create future versions of our Creative Suite for Macintosh that support both PowerPC and Intel processors," said Adobe CEO Bruce Chizen.

Representatives from Microsoft's Mac Business Unit also joined Jobs on stage to announce support for the switch.

Developers can purchase the Transition Kit for $999 USD, which includes an Intel-based Mac system, from Apple's Developer Connection network. The machine will include a Power Mac G5 case with Intel motherboard inside, along with Mac OS X 10.4.1 built for Intel.

Intel plans to release developer tools for Mac OS X later this year, including Intel C/C++ Compiler for Apple, Intel Fortran Compiler for Apple, Intel Math Kernel Libraries for Apple and Intel Integrated Performance Primitives for Apple.

Aside from major Intel switch announcement, Jobs reiterated Apple's plans to build podcasting support into iTunes 4.9, which will include a Podcast Directory featuring thousands of podcasts. Podcasts are the equivalent to amateur radio shows usually recorded in MP3 and distributed via RSS feeds.

Users can subscribe to a podcast feed directly within iTunes and receive automatic downloads of new shows. "We see it as the hottest thing going in radio," Jobs said, citing over 8,000 podcasts currently available.

Jobs also announced QuickTime 7 for Windows would be available Monday afternoon. The Mac release has been available since the debut of Tiger, and a 7.0.1 security update was issued last week.

-What we've bee trying to do for so long has been in use for almost 5 years. If anyone can get their hands on this "universal binary" or "Rosetta" code that would be awsome.
robotintestines
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Dev Kit

Post by robotintestines »

The developer PC is already for sale:

http://developer.apple.com/transitionkit.html
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Post by PPC_Digger »

Wait, Xeon/P4? What happened to 64 bit? Is it EM64T? Or just plain old IA-32? I hope OSX/Intel will not be optimized for SSE3 (because my Athlon 64 does not support it).
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Post by BSUBari »

Well it won't matter if your Athlon 64 won't supposrt that, OS X won't be able to run on non-mac systems, they will prevent this from happening
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Post by PPC_Digger »

BSUBari wrote:Well it won't matter if your Athlon 64 won't supposrt that, OS X won't be able to run on non-mac systems, they will prevent this from happening
Yes, but I am pretty sure that QEMU or some other PC emulator would implement something to allow that, and then it would run on native speeds, so I hope SSE3 would not be required, or it would downgrade performance.
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Post by CFran2 »

wow! smart move! if i remember good, apple had many problems by the past to get itselves enough processors from IBM. poor IBM tho, they lost like their main client, not that im gonna complain for them.

and damn, emulation is gonna get boosted with that now. by the way, that Rosetta thing that can able PowerPC apps to run on an Itel processor, aint that a muthafuckin Apple-made PowerPC emulator???
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Post by PPC_Digger »

CFran2 wrote:wow! smart move! if i remember good, apple had many problems by the past to get itselves enough processors from IBM. poor IBM tho, they lost like their main client, not that im gonna complain for them.
Not really. Remember what will power the PS/3 and XBOX 360?
robotintestines
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Post by robotintestines »

I just realized something that is sort of disturbing...

Will Emaculation.com continue?
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Post by PPC_Digger »

robotintestines wrote:I just realized something that is sort of disturbing...

Will Emaculation.com continue?
Of course. Emaculation is all about Mac emulation. It doesn't matter what's powering the Mac. Does it matter to your food whether your refrigerator uses 220v or 110v current?
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Post by CFran2 »

PPC_Digger wrote:
CFran2 wrote:wow! smart move! if i remember good, apple had many problems by the past to get itselves enough processors from IBM. poor IBM tho, they lost like their main client, not that im gonna complain for them.
Not really. Remember what will power the PS/3 and XBOX 360?
I know, but I mean, without apple there would be no PowerPC i guess, because they been like the only noticable ones to use it, am i wrong?
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Post by CFran2 »

robotintestines wrote:I just realized something that is sort of disturbing...

Will Emaculation.com continue?
you know, i don't think it will change anything for Basilisk II or SheepShaver. And as for something like PearPC, even if it wont emulate a PowerPC anymore it will still have things to do.

By the way it makes me wonder, what kind of performance can we expect? near native speed right?
robotintestines
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Post by robotintestines »

PPC_Digger wrote:
robotintestines wrote:I just realized something that is sort of disturbing...

Will Emaculation.com continue?
Of course. Emaculation is all about Mac emulation. It doesn't matter what's powering the Mac. Does it matter to your food whether your refrigerator uses 220v or 110v current?
Well yes, actually.

Everyone knows that 110v refrigerators leave one's secret thoughts freely readable by Major League Baseball satellites. :(

(I love Emaculation, btw)
JusticarMille
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Post by JusticarMille »

DELL sells assembled PC with Windows, HP/Compac sells assembled PC with Windows...

If APPLE sells Mac x86 based with MAC OS X, I'm not sure it would matter.

In fact I belive a lot of PC users, despite the fact they haven't bought a Mac will switch to Mac OSX, because it's better than Windows in a lot of aspects. Mac OSX isn't free, and even if it would be ported on x86, nothing will change that.

I also belive Windows users, will change their DELL/HP for Mac, if Mac equiped with x86 can run it perfectly.

I'm IS manager, and a lot of users in my company actually ask for Mac because of the design, ergonomy, ... If truelly, Apple release Mac who runs indifferently MAC OS and Windows, I will rapidly swith all my old PC for Mac. Just for flexibility and freedom of choice.
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Post by wiebeest »

PPC_Digger wrote:
BSUBari wrote:Well it won't matter if your Athlon 64 won't supposrt that, OS X won't be able to run on non-mac systems, they will prevent this from happening
Yes, but I am pretty sure that QEMU or some other PC emulator would implement something to allow that, and then it would run on native speeds, so I hope SSE3 would not be required, or it would downgrade performance.
Dang, my Winchester AMD64 doesn't support SSE3...I sure hope it is not nessecary...then again I could always upgrade to the Venice-core, since those do support SSE3 :wink: ...but let's hope that won't be nessecary.

I too am quite confident that sooner or later the nipple (New Intel aPPLE;http://www.aqua-soft.org/board/showpost ... tcount=106) OS X wil be operatable on the whole x86.

Surely an emulator for a x86 to x86 os (OS X) would be much faster, performance-wise, than an emulator that has to emulate another processor (CISC-->RISC like PearPC has to do right now, hence the 1/15th speed)?

Question: Can that Rosetta-technologie (http://macuser.pcpro.co.uk/news/73540/a ... ology.html) be of use to PearPC-performance (since it emulates powerpc proggy's to x86, and apearntly quite fast too)?
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Post by CFran2 »

wiebeest wrote: Question: Can that Rosetta-technologie (http://macuser.pcpro.co.uk/news/73540/a ... ology.html) be of use to PearPC-performance (since it emulates powerpc proggy's to x86, and apearntly quite fast too)?
i asked myself the same question. seems like its only an adaptation of QuickTransit tho.
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Post by Marc »

Rosetta doesn't look so hot performance wise. I'd hope they would have the performance improved by the time it ships.
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Post by PPC_Digger »

wiebeest wrote:
PPC_Digger wrote:
BSUBari wrote:Well it won't matter if your Athlon 64 won't supposrt that, OS X won't be able to run on non-mac systems, they will prevent this from happening
Yes, but I am pretty sure that QEMU or some other PC emulator would implement something to allow that, and then it would run on native speeds, so I hope SSE3 would not be required, or it would downgrade performance.
Dang, my Winchester AMD64 doesn't support SSE3...I sure hope it is not nessecary...then again I could always upgrade to the Venice-core, since those do support SSE3 :wink: ...but let's hope that won't be nessecary.
My NewCastle doesn't support it either. It doesn't matter. By the time OSX/Intel comes out I'll probably upgrade anyway. Besides, I'm pretty sure I'll be among the first to buy the Mac P4.
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Post by Graham Brown Martin »

This is very interesting, and either opens up a can of worms or a world of possibilities.

Graham Brown-Martin.
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Post by robojam »

Graham Brown Martin wrote:This is very interesting, and either opens up a can of worms or a world of possibilities.

Graham Brown-Martin.
Another helping of spam anyone...?
Once you've made something idiot proof, they go and invent a better idiot!
Marc
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Post by Marc »

Amazing insights into Apple's switch to Intel CPUs...
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Post by Graham Brown Martin »

Sorry if you thought my post was spam - its just my way of signing off. But, I actually think that there is a very interesting possibility for the Mac OS X once fully ported and working on Intel processors to then potentially compete for those PC owners considering an upgrade to Vista. Why upgrade to Vista if you could have Mac OS X?
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Post by Marc »

Ah right...I thought you meant your link could open up a can of worms! Sorry. Yes agreed. If Mac OS X is hacked or released onto ordinary hardware then it will be very interesting to see how many people take it up.
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