No sound in SheepShaver (Mac OS 9 for Windows)

About unsupported SheepShaver configurations, like COI (Chubby Bunny), SheepShaver Wrapper, etc.

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WayneCa
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No sound in SheepShaver (Mac OS 9 for Windows)

Post by WayneCa »

I am running the MacOS9 version that I downloaded as already setup and ready to go. When I start the emulation, there is no startup sound. When the desktop appears, I get messages from a script about things not existing, including one that says a command couldn't be processed because volume was missing, either disabled or unmounted. I have no idea what that means, and the other errors it reports are for a different topic. Anyway, I can go to the Sound control panel and Built-In is listed. I click it to select it and then I can have sounds, but only until the next time I restart or run SheepShaver again. I didn't have various system sounds until I set a theme for the desktop, and even then I had to go back more than once to re-select Apple Platinum sounds before it worked. I understand that SheepShaver doesn't emulate all Macintosh hardware fully, so is there a way to get the sounds to be on by default? I have looked at the SheepShaver prefs and all it has is an item that says nosound false. I'm guessing that's supposed to turn sounds off if set true, but it's already off without that setting.
Last edited by Ronald P. Regensburg on Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver/Mac OS 9

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

WayneCa wrote:I am running the MacOS9 version that I downloaded as already setup and ready to go.
You mean a preconfigured setup around SheepShaver? There are several different ones available from different sources. Please tell us which one and from where you downloaded it.

And which is your host system?
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver/Mac OS 9

Post by emendelson »

I think the post to which you're responding may refer to my Mac OS 9 for Windows system. I got an email today about a similar problem with the startup script in that system, a problem that I can't reproduce.

If this is in fact my system, then the SheepShaver build in it is one that I made with MinGW a year ago using kanjitalk755's code at the time.

EDIT: As for sounds, SheepShaver doesn't support the Mac startup sound. As for the other problems, again, I can't reproduce the problem. Try deleting this file:

MacOS9/Programs/SheepShaver_nvram.dat

and see what happens.
WayneCa
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver/Mac OS 9

Post by WayneCa »

Ronald P. Regensburg wrote:
WayneCa wrote:I am running the MacOS9 version that I downloaded as already setup and ready to go.
You mean a preconfigured setup around SheepShaver? There are several different ones available from different sources. Please tell us which one and from where you downloaded it.

And which is your host system?
I downloaded it from emaculation as I recall. The next post after yours is the guy who created it. My system is a HP Pavilion 64-bit Windows 10 Home system. I will respond to the next post to give more details about what is happening.
WayneCa
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver/Mac OS 9

Post by WayneCa »

emendelson wrote:I think the post to which you're responding may refer to my Mac OS 9 for Windows system. I got an email today about a similar problem with the startup script in that system, a problem that I can't reproduce.

If this is in fact my system, then the SheepShaver build in it is one that I made with MinGW a year ago using kanjitalk755's code at the time.

EDIT: As for sounds, SheepShaver doesn't support the Mac startup sound. As for the other problems, again, I can't reproduce the problem. Try deleting this file:

MacOS9/Programs/SheepShaver_nvram.dat

and see what happens.
I deleted that file and nothing changed. The errors in the script still occur and the sounds are still off until I go to the control panel and select Built In in the list. I have created a video to show the system rebooting. (XBox Game Bar records the whole screen if the window I want to record isn't there yet, so I booted, then restarted the system while recording. Interestingly, the emulator crashed during the second reboot, ending the recording.)

I will post a link here when I get the video uploaded to YouTube.
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver/Mac OS 9

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

WayneCa wrote:I downloaded it from emaculation as I recall.
I don't think you downloaded it from emaculation. Probably from this address: http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/macos9win.html

Later I will move the part of this thread that was started by you to a new topic in the Other SheepShaver configurations subforum.
WayneCa
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver/Mac OS 9

Post by WayneCa »

Ronald P. Regensburg wrote:
WayneCa wrote:I downloaded it from emaculation as I recall.
I don't think you downloaded it from emaculation. Probably from this address: http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/macos9win.html

Later I will move the part of this thread that was started by you to a new topic in the Other SheepShaver configurations subforum.
The filename of the installer is MacOS9AppInstaller.exe. According to the properties window, the copyright is WPDOS.org, the version is 2020.04.28, the product name is MacOS9 and the file description is MacOS9 Setup. I hope this helps identify who created the setup and where I downloaded it from. I looked at the link you provided, and yes, that is where I downloaded it from .

Anyway, I have uploaded the video to YouTube and the link is https://youtu.be/jwJNekJZgvE
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver (Mac OS 9 for Windows)

Post by emendelson »

Well, that's my setup, and I can't reproduce the problem with the startup items folder. I've now installed it on four different systems (each with different user names), and it works perfectly each time.

I also can't reproduce the problem with sounds.

Your YouTube video shows that you've installed a lot of software on to this system. My guess is that something that you've installed has messed things up. The only solution is problem to start over with a new download of the system. Save your existing hard disk image; when you reinstall, tell the installer to replace your existing disk. See whether it works when you install it again.

If it does, then add your existing disk image to the prefs file as a second disk and copy over or install what you need. After installing each app, restart to see if it messed anything up.

Since I can't reproduce the problem after multiple tries, it's almost certainly unique to your setup, and, unfortunately, almost certainly the only solution is to start all over. When you've started over with a completely clean installation, please let us know what happens.
WayneCa
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver (Mac OS 9 for Windows)

Post by WayneCa »

emendelson wrote:Well, that's my setup, and I can't reproduce the problem with the startup items folder. I've now installed it on four different systems (each with different user names), and it works perfectly each time.

I also can't reproduce the problem with sounds.

Your YouTube video shows that you've installed a lot of software on to this system. My guess is that something that you've installed has messed things up. The only solution is problem to start over with a new download of the system. Save your existing hard disk image; when you reinstall, tell the installer to replace your existing disk. See whether it works when you install it again.

If it does, then add your existing disk image to the prefs file as a second disk and copy over or install what you need. After installing each app, restart to see if it messed anything up.

Since I can't reproduce the problem after multiple tries, it's almost certainly unique to your setup, and, unfortunately, almost certainly the only solution is to start all over. When you've started over with a completely clean installation, please let us know what happens.
It was doing this from the moment I installed it, long before I started adding other software. But I will try reinstalling it again. This time I will record it starting up the first time with nothing but the software it came with.
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver (Mac OS 9 for Windows)

Post by WayneCa »

I made another video. This time it's four different clips covering what I had to do to get the sound to work, and this time it started staying set, but you will see the difficulties I had getting there, plus you will see the script errors in all their glory. This is the vanilla setup, with nothing installed but what the installer put there. I am about to go home, and it takes about an hour to an hour and a half to upload a 12 minute video to YouTube, so I will be uploading it when I get home. I will post here when it's available.
WayneCa
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver (Mac OS 9 for Windows)

Post by WayneCa »

emendelson
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver (Mac OS 9 for Windows)

Post by emendelson »

I can't reproduce the problems, so I'm afraid I can do nothing to help.

You should probably find another way to run SheepShaver. No one is forcing you to use this one, and there's probably no reason why you should waste your time with a system that doesn't work for you.

I strongly urge you to use some other SheepShaver setup instead of one that causes so many problems. And I want to emphasize that there is absolutely nothing more that I can say or do to help with problems that I can't reproduce.
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver (Mac OS 9 for Windows)

Post by WayneCa »

I'm sorry you feel that way. I have been a programmer (not of such languages as C or Pascal, but of a little known language called Basic09, and on the Mac I dabbled in FutureBASIC while I had my Quadra) and have always felt that, if I can't reproduce the problem locally, then maybe the person with the issue can help me track it down. Yes, it takes a little more time, and yes, it means having to ask questions and wait for answers, but if the other person is willing to help, you should take it. I am willing to help, and I can tell you a few things I figured out before I started this conversation in the old thread. So, let's start there and see what we can figure out together. OK?

The first thing I found when I started digging was something I think is strange, but maybe it's supposed to be that way? All I know is, doing what I did reduced the error to one instead of two, but I still don't understand what's causing the issue. so, what did I find?

The MacOS9StartUp script is in the Startup Items folder and the alias to that script is in the System Folder. I thought that seemed backwards, so I swapped them. I put the alias in the Startup Items folder and the script in the System Folder.

That didn't change anything, so I then moved the script file out to the root folder of the drive.

That change made it so the second error only stated not finding the MacOS9 folder (the root). And, of course, it called it a file, not a folder. Next I moved the script out onto the desktop to see what would happen.

That change resulted in MacOS9:Desktop Folder not found. I then realized that it wasn't looking for the MacOS9 hard drive, it was looking for the MacOS9 folder on my PC. Using This PC, I looked on the C drive and noticed that the Users folder has a locked folder icon. I am wondering if this is the problem, since it has to get into the Users folder to get to my user account folder and find the MacOS9 folder inside that folder. You may be better able to answer that than I am.

In my previous install, somehow the volume ejected or not mounted error went away when I moved the script into the System Folder and the alias into the Startup Items folder. Not so this time.

I hope this helps to give you a starting point in figuring this out. Let me know if you get any insights from it. And you are always welcome to ask me more questions if it will help you track this thing down. after all, it's just a script.
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver (Mac OS 9 for Windows)

Post by WayneCa »

Something else dawned on me, I tried it, and it worked. Errors are gone now, but is the script supposed to stay running after it's done?

I put the script back in the Startup Items folder and the alias back in the System Folder. Then I used This PC to Select New Original from the Get Info dialog for the alias to the Transfer folder. When I restarted, it gave me the testing transfer message, and then gave me Transfer Setup Complete (or something like that), no errors. But instead of ending, the script remained running and I had to end it manually. Is it supposed to be that way?
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver (Mac OS 9 for Windows)

Post by emendelson »

The alias in the System Folder is simply there for my convenience when I want to open the script itself in the editor. It has no other function, and doesn't need to be there at all.

The script is called something like "Background Actions Script" to indicate that it is supposed to run in the background. if you shut it down, and it isn't running, then the file-transfer feature (from Windows to SheepShaver) won't work. However, if you manually change the Transfer folder, then that feature probably won't work even if the script is running.

I'm glad to heard you're no longer getting error messages. I still have no idea of why it didn't work the first time. Shall we say, "Case closed"?
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver (Mac OS 9 for Windows)

Post by WayneCa »

Well, since you obviously don't want to deal with it, sure. There is still the sound problem. I put the other copy of the MacOS9 startup disk in in place of the new one, and the sound started acting up again. I'm not sure if the speech system has anything to do with it or not. I haven't finished checking to see how much of that I added and how much was already there, so it may be that causing the sound problems. anyway, I won't bother you with it anymore. The system is working enough for me to do what I need to do, and that's what matters.
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver (Mac OS 9 for Windows)

Post by emendelson »

I'd be very happy to deal with it if I knew what I was dealing with.

When you wrote your message where you reported that you had no more errors, I was in fact writing a message suggesting that you might want to debug the background script to find exactly where it failed. (The simplest way would be to add message boxes in many places until you narrow down the line that fails; you could also use the stepping feature in Script Debugger.) It's too late for that now, because you no longer have a problem with the background script. But if it happens again, please try that debugging procedure, so that it might be possible to figure out what's wrong. The only way I can solve whatever problem there might be would be for you to find exactly where it occurs. This will take a lot of time and trouble. If you're willing to do the work, I'll gladly try to find a fix and add it to the system.

About sound: again, I can't reproduce the problem, so there is absolutely nothing I can do to solve it until you can figure out exactly where the problem occurs. SheepShaver does not support the startup sound, so there's no solution for that. As for the rest, if you're willing to debug the problem by experimenting until you find exactly how and where the problem occurred, I will happily try to find a solution and add it to the system immediately. As soon as your debugging procedure reveals exactly what triggers the problem, please post the details here.
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver (Mac OS 9 for Windows)

Post by WayneCa »

Background Actions Script does not exist on the hard drive. The script that runs at startup is named MacOS9StartUp. That is the name of the script in the Startup Items folder and of the alias in the System Folder. I will see what I can do about determining where the bug occurs. I will probably have to reinstall the emulator again though, since I have no idea what the original path of the Transfer alias was, and I changed it on both the new copy and the old copy. I tried running the old copy to see if the sound would work, but it still had issues, so I am not going to use that disk anymore. I will post here when I find out something that might help you.
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver (Mac OS 9 for Windows)

Post by emendelson »

You're right about the name of the script; similar scripts have different names in my different systems. I think "background" is in the name of the script in the Mac version of this. I have three or four separate systems that use this kind of background script; they've been working on other people's systems for at least three or four years, and your issue is the first problem that I've heard about since I fixed another issue back in 2017, I think.

If I remember correctly, the Transfer folder gets created according to the contents of WINPATH.TXT, but I'm writing this from memory, and it's been a very long time since I looked closely at that script. You can very easily figure it out by opening the script in an editor. If you look at my page about the system, you should find a paragraph about replacing the startup script with one called BackgroundScript or something like that; that way you won't see those messages about the Transfer folder at startup. But read the page carefully for the details.

Thank you in advance for any detailed information.
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver (Mac OS 9 for Windows)

Post by WayneCa »

I may have found the problem already. I ran the script in the script editor and it stopped when it got to the volume ejected or not mounted error. It was in this section of the script:

Code: Select all

		tell me to activate
		display dialog "Testing transfer folder." buttons {"Wait..."} giving up after 1
		if transferChecked is false then
			set trTest to (original item of trAlias) as string
The word string in the phrase as string in the last line was hilited. That prompted me to look and see what the path of the alias to Transfer in the MacOS9 folder is. It is:

Code: Select all

Win10-M2:X:MacOS9AppInst:Transfer
There is no such path on my computer. This could explain why the volume not found error is occurring. The path in the WinPath.txt file is correct:

Code: Select all

This PC:C:Users:Wayne Campbell:MacOS9:Transfer:
I changed the path to the alias to the same path as indicated in the WinPath.txt file with :Transfer appended to it (I used the set new original button in the Get Info dialog) and the problem was solved. That is the same change I made to the last installation.

The sound problem still exists, so my next post will be to address that as much as possible, but I think it may have something to do with the configuration of this specific emulation, because I found nothing in the sheepshaver preferences that would indicate a problem with the emulator.
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver (Mac OS 9 for Windows)

Post by WayneCa »

I decided to look at the appearance control panel first this time. It turns out that on the sounds tab, sound track is set to none. I decided to try setting that to Platinum Sounds before doing anything else and see what happens.

I was still not getting sounds, so I restarted OS9 from the Special menu and looked at the appearance CP again. It was still set to Platinum sounds, so I looked at the Sound CP. Built-In was not selected, so I selected it. I now have sounds, so I restarted to see if the sound would remain.

The sound remained on, but there is a new issue that has happened twice. The first time, all I had to do was restart from the Special menu to fix it, but the second time I had to shut down from the special menu and start the emulation over by double-clicking the desktop icon to fix it. It is the Apple Script system not being setup correctly on bootup. The clear temporary items script and the macos9startup script both report an error that they can't be run because the scripting system isn't available.

The first time was right after I selected platinum sounds in the appearance CP and then restarted, and the second time was when I selected the Built-In item in the sound CP and then restarted. There is definitely something strange going on with the sound aspect of this emulation.

Anyway, this is about as far as I can take things without guidance from someone who knows the system better than I do.
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver (Mac OS 9 for Windows)

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

I am not familiar with this particular configuration. But note that in SheepShaver settings that are saved in the nvram file are saved when SheepShaver is shut down, not when the emulated machine is restarted. This will apply to this configuration also.
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver (Mac OS 9 for Windows)

Post by emendelson »

WayneCa wrote:I changed the path to the alias to the same path as indicated in the WinPath.txt file with :Transfer appended to it (I used the set new original button in the Get Info dialog) and the problem was solved. That is the same change I made to the last installation.
That tells me exactly what I needed to know. Thank you. The error was entirely mine, when I updated the hard disk image a few weeks ago, and neglected to delete the Transfer alias before uploading. The current download doesn't have the problem. Thank you again for finding where the error was. The script should be able to recover from the problem by itself, and I may try to add some code that makes it do this more reliably.

Your Windows user folder seems to have a space in its name; I wonder whether that causes some obscure problems on the Windows side of things.

I've also enabled the Built-In sound output option in the new installer. Whether or not this will have any effect on your sound problem, I haven't the faintest idea.

One other point: SheepShaver tends to do strange things when you restart from the Special menu. It's always better to shut down and start up again. (That's what causes this error: "The clear temporary items script and the macos9startup script both report an error that they can't be run because the scripting system isn't available.")
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver (Mac OS 9 for Windows)

Post by WayneCa »

I'm glad I could help. I will remember to always shut down and then start the emulation again rather than restarting from the special menu. I will download the updated installer and see what it does. If there's an issue I will post here.

so far, having a space in my user account name hasn't been an issues, except in some command line things where I have to specify the path in quotes because of it. I didn't name it that way, the system did, based on my name. I have yet to figure out how to rename it and get rid of the space, but then I would have to update everything else in the system to account for the lack of the space, so I have just left it alone. So far, the emulator doesn't seem to have a problem with it.
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Re: No sound in SheepShaver (Mac OS 9 for Windows)

Post by adespoton »

emendelson, since you're pre-loading the OS into your app anyway, would it make sense to go in with ResEdit and remove the Restart menu line from the Finder? That way, people can't restart, and many SS issues will be avoided. You could also rename "Shut Down" to "Quit and Save Settings" if you wanted ;)
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