GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

About QEMU, a PPC Mac emulator for Windows, macOS and Linux that can run Mac OS 9.0 up to Mac OS X 10.5

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Cat_7
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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Cat_7 »

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tuntaposx is installed and does work when used for SheepShaver.
It looks like I miss a library. How do I install that?
You can download the qemu OSX build I created earlier: http://www.emaculation.com/forum/viewto ... =34&t=8848
It was fixed with respect to the dependencies. Please note that you need the libs folder, in which the dependencies live.

You should not use the bios from that download, but the one from the disk image download.

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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Cat_7 »

Hey still here just keeping tabs heh. I played with your image a bit (thanks for uploading that heh) and got it to kinda boot the OS9 partition you have to type "boot hd:10,\\:tbxi" in OF to boot from the OS9 partition (its the 10th partition on the disk heh)
That was to be expected, but worth a try.

I'll upload a disk image with OSX 10.4 and Mac OS 9.2 shortly.

EDIT: 10.4/9.2 disk image available here: http://www.open.ou.nl/hsp/downloads3/te ... .4.dmg.zip

username and password: hsp

It is an zipped image of a 10Gb disk with size of ~ 4.2 Gb
Even slower compared to the 10.3 installation. Please note that I created this image on a g4/400/agp, while the previous image was created on a g3/233. The Mac99/G4 combo, however, has problems with the mouse. It looks like the G4 emulation defaults to usb mouse/keyboard which do not work well. So stay with the G3 cpu for Qemu.

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Last edited by Cat_7 on Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mabam
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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by mabam »

Cat_7 wrote:You can download the qemu OSX build I created earlier: http://www.emaculation.com/forum/viewto ... =34&t=8848
It was fixed with respect to the dependencies. Please note that you need the libs folder, in which the dependencies live.

You should not use the bios from that download, but the one from the disk image download.
I have copied the Libs folder to "QemuOSX_Classic". Still doesn't work:

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dyld: Library not loaded: /usr/local/opt/pixman/lib/libpixman-1.0.dylib
  Referenced from: /Users/markus/Downloads/QEMU/./qemu-system-ppc
  Reason: image not found
ifconfig: SIOCIFCREATE2: File exists
ifconfig: BRDGADD en0: File exists
ifconfig: BRDGADD tap0: No such file or directory
logout
What am I doing wrong?
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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Cat_7 »

You also need the qemu program, not only the libs. The program was fixed to use the libraries in the Libs folder.

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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by mabam »

Okay, this starts QEMU, but not OS X. QEMU just displays

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Welcome to OpenBIOS v1.1 built on Feb 9 2016 07:28

0 > 
Is there another thing or step I have missed?
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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Cat_7 »

type "boot" and press enter

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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by that-ben »

Hey Cat_7, I saw you succeeded in booting MacOS 9.2 in QEMU in OSX! Great news! Will it be possible to use QEMU in a ARM-based CPU like a Raspberry Pi 2 soon? I saw you have a "How to" guide for installing QEMU in OSX, can you teach us how to do that with a Raspberry Pi 2 also? :)
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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Cat_7 »

Hey Cat_7, I saw you succeeded in booting MacOS 9.2 in QEMU in OSX! Great news! Will it be possible to use QEMU in a ARM-based CPU like a Raspberry Pi 2 soon? I saw you have a "How to" guide for installing QEMU in OSX, can you teach us how to do that with a Raspberry Pi 2 also? :)
Hi,

I don't think I will be able to provide such a build. Perhaps someone with an ARM device or the capability to cross-compile for ARM can try and share?

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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by mabam »

Cat_7 wrote:type "boot" and press enter
And boot it does.
Thank you!

Only after I enter

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sudo ifconfig tap0 192.168.1.90 netmask 255.255.255.0
in Terminal on the host once 10.3.9 has finished booting, QEMU will be able to access the network (contrary to the script I use when starting SheepShaver, for QEMU it doesn't work if I add this line to the batch file). I can now reach my NAS and my LaserWriter via AppleTalk from within QEMU. (After my host machine woke up from sleep, this network connection is not restored until I restart the host machine first – which is the same with SheepShaver, by the way.)

However, "hsp qemu" does appear under "Places" in the sidebar in Mountain Lion but failes to connect when I click on it.

Also, there is an issue with the key mapping. Whenever I hit command OS X in QEMU asks whether I want to shut down the machine.

Any ideas/solutions regarding these issues?
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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by mcayland »

Cat_7 wrote:Good news!

I imaged a disk from a g3/233 running OSX 10.2 and Mac OS 9.1 and booted it with Qemu in OSX.
The system boots and runs without issue, and what is more, classic fully booted OS9.1 ;-)
Both without, and with all extensions enabled.

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Cat_7
That's great news! So effectively the OldWorld bootloader works a treat here :)

Per the copyright property discussion on the OpenBIOS list, can you try the binary at https://www.ilande.co.uk/tmp/openbios/o ... -romosnode to see if it still enables you to boot the above image? Many thanks!
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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by mcayland »

@LightBulbFun: great to see you're still around :)

FWIW if you're using a recent QEMU git master you should find that the PCI region warnings have now disappeared from OS X boot when using -M mac99, and as the latest OpenBIOS binaries have also been merged in QEMU then boot from CD on -M mac99 should be fixed too :)
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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Cat_7 »

Per the copyright property discussion on the OpenBIOS list, can you try the binary at https://www.ilande.co.uk/tmp/openbios/o ... -romosnode to see if it still enables you to boot the above image? Many thanks!
This openbios still boots both OSX/Classic images. No problems.

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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by LightBulbFun »

Was playing around a bit today and I rember reading there was some issues trying to get Mac OS 8 to even be seen as bootable by QEMU well today I found a 8.6 ISO for Sawtooths (sawteeth? LOL) witch is a rather late 8.6 Image and I decided to try it in QEMU (using the OpenBIOS image from the 10.3.9 image zip posted) and well it did try and boot from it but then it crashed out Like when you try and boot 9.1 say Just thought id share this heh

Image
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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by fuzzie »

Just in case it avoids anyone duplicating work: I added some of my notes about the boot process, and (perhaps more interestingly) a script to unpack the OS 9.x ROM file (which contains the boot-time drivers), to https://github.com/fuzzie/macosinternals
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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by that-ben »

Cat_7 wrote:I don't think I will be able to provide such a build. Perhaps someone with an ARM device or the capability to cross-compile for ARM can try and share?
I do have a Raspberry Pi 2+ but I have no experience at all in the matter. I'm only at the point of installing the WiFi dongle driver at the moment :P Anybody would care to guide me? We could all benefit from this, because more recently, ARM-based CPU's are so cheap! You can now get a full featured 1ghz quad core computer that is as big as a USB stick for less than 10$! I could stick a 128GB SD card in it and bring along my childhood memories of classic Mac OS games and apps everywhere I go and could even plug it in any TV where I go. SO PRACTICAL! :D What's more, classic Mac OS is rolling on the floor laughing with a 1ghz CPU and 2GB of RAM, it doesn't even need half of it! It's the right platform for QEMU and Mac OS 9 :D
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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Cat_7 »

What's more, classic Mac OS is rolling on the floor laughing with a 1ghz CPU and 2GB of RAM, it doesn't even need half of it! It's the right platform for QEMU and Mac OS 9 :D
That's where you are wrong ;-) You poor arm processor would need to translate the powerpc processor instructions and run classic inside OSX. I would guess Mac OS would be crawling on your floor from pain and distress.

The current situation is that the emulation is sluggish, even on a 3.5Ghz i7. Perhaps the situation will become better when Qemu supports Mac OS 9 directly.

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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by that-ben »

ORLY? It's that serious? Wow... I thought it would have been more in the ballpark of what SheepShaver has been doing for a decade. This makes it hard to believe I was playing Warcraft IIx on a 25mhz 68K CPU with only 8MB of RAM back in the 90's. I'll continue to silently read the progress you guys are making here on this forum and wait some more then :P
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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by adespoton »

QEMU focuses on complete emulation of all parts; SheepShaver and PearPC focus on performance and take a lot of shortcuts.
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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by CharlesS »

I'm not surprised that it'd be slow when running OS X, a rather heavyweight OS in its own right, and then running another OS in a virtual machine inside of that. With that said, when I tried the test OS 9 image from earlier in this thread on my MBP, it seemed not to take that long to boot up and felt pretty responsive, although I didn't try running any actual software in it. I'd expect that running OS 9 directly shouldn't perform too badly; that OS was designed to run on everything from the 60 MHz PowerPC 601 on up (9.0, anyway, but 9.2.x didn't really change much that would affect performance). I'd expect that even without shortcuts, QEMU should be able to emulate something that it can handle, even on a 1 GHz ARM.
There's no earthly way of knowing, which direction we are going, for the rowers keep on rowing, and they're certainly not showing any signs that they are slowing.
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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by adespoton »

I'd say that Mac OS 8.6 running directly on QEMU with the correct display driver should work pretty well on a 1GHz ARM; anything past 9.0.4 will have the Classic modifications that makes it optimized for virtualization in the OS X Classic mode. This means that some things will be more stable in an emulated environment, but other code will be more involved. That said, 9.2 should still be functional on a 1GHz ARM; just not as zippy as what you might expect.

As soon as you go to emulating OS X (remember, OS X got FASTER with each PPC release), NOT emulating the graphics hardware (which OS X offloads a lot of display management to when it can), and then virtualizing a mix of 68k/PPC Classic code inside that... 1GHz ARM might work, but it's not going to be like using the original hardware, unless that hardware was a low-spec G2 PPC. I can remember the pain of running OS 9 on an Old World PPC, and eventually reverted back to 8.6 because it was just so much faster.

However, if we can get 2D graphics acceleration working in QEMU, this bodes well for VirtualBox as well, as it could inherit some of those features -- and using 2D acceleration will noticeably speed up OS X 10.3 and later, including Classic.
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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by sentient06 »

This topic is growing to insane proportions. I am well lost in which combinations of arguments can be used with which OS version and which results are yielded.

Is there a way we can document all the combinations with short result descriptions?

Imagine a table, maybe a spreadsheet.

Example:
  • Using 'qemu-system-ppc' version 2.4.0.1
  • Using 'openbios-qemu.elf' version x.x.x or from dd/mm/yyyy;
  • Emulating Mac OS 9.2.2
  • Using .iso file with <some tricky.. thing>
  • All Open Transport extensions removed
  • With the arguments:
    • -M mac99
    • -m 256
    • -cpu G4
  • Result: <works | doesn't work | beach-balls and crashes | something else here>
  • Caveats: <must compile | unresponsive mouse | no sound | etc>
[repeat for Mac OS 8.5, 9.0.4, 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, using classic 9.2, etc]

It would be much easier than trying to find the information in the thread, imho.
One of us could create something.. say.. a shared google spreadsheet file. What do you reckon?
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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Programmingkid »

sentient06 wrote:This topic is growing to insane proportions. I am well lost in which combinations of arguments can be used with which OS version and which results are yielded.

Is there a way we can document all the combinations with short result descriptions?

Imagine a table, maybe a spreadsheet.

Example:
  • Using 'qemu-system-ppc' version 2.4.0.1
  • Using 'openbios-qemu.elf' version x.x.x or from dd/mm/yyyy;
  • Emulating Mac OS 9.2.2
  • Using .iso file with <some tricky.. thing>
  • All Open Transport extensions removed
  • With the arguments:
    • -M mac99
    • -m 256
    • -cpu G4
  • Result: <works | doesn't work | beach-balls and crashes | something else here>
  • Caveats: <must compile | unresponsive mouse | no sound | etc>
[repeat for Mac OS 8.5, 9.0.4, 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, using classic 9.2, etc]

It would be much easier than trying to find the information in the thread, imho.
One of us could create something.. say.. a shared google spreadsheet file. What do you reckon?
I made documentation for the Macintosh emulator in QEMU here: http://wiki.qemu.org/PowerPC

It does have some of your suggestions already in it. Let me know what you think of it.
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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by PeterHolbrook »

Programmingkid wrote:I made documentation for the Macintosh emulator in QEMU here: http://wiki.qemu.org/PowerPC

It does have some of your suggestions already in it. Let me know what you think of it.
That's a great and useful summary. Many thanks.
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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by adespoton »

That page is an excellent start -- I believe it is somewhat out of date with the latest custom test builds of openbios though.

Indicating the qemu/openbios builds and test dates would definitely help.
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Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Programmingkid »

adespoton wrote:That page is an excellent start -- I believe it is somewhat out of date with the latest custom test builds of openbios though.

Indicating the qemu/openbios builds and test dates would definitely help.
That sounds like a logical suggestion. How does this look:

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Operating System  	Status                                       QEMU Build      OpenBIOS revision
Mac OS 8.5           Prints error about missing /rtas               2.5              1378
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