GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

About QEMU, a PPC Mac emulator for Windows, macOS and Linux that can run Mac OS 9.0 up to Mac OS X 10.5

Moderators: Cat_7, Ronald P. Regensburg

User avatar
Cat_7
Expert User
Posts: 5103
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:59 am
Location: Sittard, The Netherlands

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Cat_7 »

Hi,

I created new sound enabled (screamer) builds for OSX and Windows.

OSX: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=8848#p52104
Windows: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=9028

My current experiences with them are:
-The windows build performs slightly less well compared to the OSX build.
-You need the most recent Quicktime and iTunes installed in the various guests for best performance.
-10.4 and 10.5 guests can play internet radio with some crackling (like playing an old scratched record).
-Starting the sound control panel in OSX guests when already playing music creates havoc in the audio stream.
-Moving the whole window in which the guest runs disrupts the stream in Windows host, but not in OSX host.
-9.x are still the best for audio playback.
-I experimented with various variables available for controlling the audio, but haven't found a perfect mix.

Please report your experience,

Best,
Cat_7
dipper
Space Cadet
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:41 am

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by dipper »

Do you happen to have a link to the source that was used to create the binaries? Has any attempt been made to build them on 64-bit Linux? Just to clarify, the screamer builds do have a hard requirement on iTunes and QuickTime for audio support?
User avatar
Cat_7
Expert User
Posts: 5103
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:59 am
Location: Sittard, The Netherlands

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Cat_7 »

Hi,

The screamer source code is at:
https://github.com/mcayland/qemu/tree/screamer

I build on Linux regularly, but the sound performance is no better there.

iTunes and QuickTime are not strictly required.

Best,
Cat_7
User avatar
celebi23
Tinkerer
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:53 am

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by celebi23 »

Cat_7 wrote:Hi,

I created new sound enabled (screamer) builds for OSX and Windows.

OSX: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=8848#p52104
Windows: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=9028

My current experiences with them are:
-The windows build performs slightly less well compared to the OSX build.
-You need the most recent Quicktime and iTunes installed in the various guests for best performance.
-10.4 and 10.5 guests can play internet radio with some crackling (like playing an old scratched record).
-Starting the sound control panel in OSX guests when already playing music creates havoc in the audio stream.
-Moving the whole window in which the guest runs disrupts the stream in Windows host, but not in OSX host.
-9.x are still the best for audio playback.
-I experimented with various variables available for controlling the audio, but haven't found a perfect mix.

Please report your experience,

Best,
Cat_7
Not sure what I'm doing wrong. I've got iTunes 2.0.4 and Quicktime 6.0.3 installed under 9.2.2. Audio is glitchy at best and most of the time is nonexistent completely :sad: This has been the result for every screamer build. This is my one tiny problem with Qemu. Everything else is awesome. Never thought I'd be running 9.2.2 like this. If I can figure out the audio problem, it'd be almost perfect.

Here's my Qemu launch command:

Code: Select all

#!/bin/bash
cd "$(dirname "$0")"
./qemu-system-ppc64 -L pc-bios -boot c -M mac99 -cpu G4 -m 1536 -prom-env 'auto-boot?=true' -prom-env 'boot-args=-v' -prom-env 'vga-ndrv?=true' -drive file=MacintoshHD.dmg,format=raw,media=disk -drive file=AdobeMac.dmg,format=raw,media=disk -netdev user,id=network0 -device sungem,netdev=network0 -device usb-mouse -device usb-kbd
User avatar
adespoton
Forum All-Star
Posts: 3105
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:11 am
Location: Emaculation.com
Contact:

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by adespoton »

I'm having an intersting issue: with the new build, -rtc base="2000-12-25",clock="vm" is being ignored, which is a problem for the OS X Public Beta. -rtc base="2000-12-25",clock="rt" returns the same result -- "OSXPB has expired".

Anyone know what might be going wrong? This works fine in all other builds of qemu I've tried.
User avatar
adespoton
Forum All-Star
Posts: 3105
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:11 am
Location: Emaculation.com
Contact:

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by adespoton »

You can ignore my previous post -- the issue is that sungem is working correctly with the PB now, and so NTP is updating the time after I've set it but before the OS checks it :} Turning off the network connection fixes that, and everything's happy.
Programmingkid
Apple Corer
Posts: 243
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:01 pm

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Programmingkid »

Cat_7 wrote:Hi,

I created new sound enabled (screamer) builds for OSX and Windows.

OSX: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=8848#p52104
Windows: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=9028

My current experiences with them are:
-The windows build performs slightly less well compared to the OSX build.
-You need the most recent Quicktime and iTunes installed in the various guests for best performance.
-10.4 and 10.5 guests can play internet radio with some crackling (like playing an old scratched record).
-Starting the sound control panel in OSX guests when already playing music creates havoc in the audio stream.
-Moving the whole window in which the guest runs disrupts the stream in Windows host, but not in OSX host.
-9.x are still the best for audio playback.
-I experimented with various variables available for controlling the audio, but haven't found a perfect mix.

Please report your experience,

Best,
Cat_7
I am using Mac OS 9.2.2 with the USB audio device. Audio (when it does work) plays perfectly for about 30 seconds. Then it stops playing. I'm not sure what changed but this is definitely a huge improvement for the USB audio device playback. I have Quicktime 5.0.2, iTunes 2.0.4, and QEMU 3.0.91 (v3.1.0-rc1-dirty).
User avatar
Cat_7
Expert User
Posts: 5103
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:59 am
Location: Sittard, The Netherlands

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Cat_7 »

What happens when you use your default sound device on the host?

Best,
Cat_7
Programmingkid
Apple Corer
Posts: 243
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:01 pm

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Programmingkid »

Cat_7 wrote:What happens when you use your default sound device on the host?

Best,
Cat_7
I used the USB audio device that comes with QEMU. I have experiemented with using a real USB sound card in QEMU. The results were not good.
J. Gryphon
Student Driver
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:52 pm

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by J. Gryphon »

Cat_7 wrote:Hi,

The screamer source code is at:
https://github.com/mcayland/qemu/tree/screamer

I build on Linux regularly, but the sound performance is no better there.
Do you have any tips for improving Linux performance? I made a build from that source on Ubuntu 18.10 and the speed is pretty atrocious compared to the OS X pre-built binary, on the same machine.
User avatar
Cat_7
Expert User
Posts: 5103
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:59 am
Location: Sittard, The Netherlands

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Cat_7 »

Are you talking about the screamer builds in both cases? And when doing what?

I regularly test their speeds in 9.2 with MacBench. OSX and Linux builds have more or less the same speed. Only the Windows builds lag by some 10%.

Best,
Cat_7
J. Gryphon
Student Driver
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:52 pm

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by J. Gryphon »

It should be Screamer for both, since that's the main build I use and care much about. The general performance is visually more sluggish with the motion on the screen being more choppy than I recall in OS X. Also, there's some benchmarks with Speedometer below. "Qemu 9.1" is the tested performance of the machine in OS X; the others are with my Linux build, set to emulate G4 and G3 processors respectively, in the start command.

Image
Image

It's my experience that there's naturally some variation in whetstone results, so that doesn't bother me much, but the lag elsewhere is concerning.
User avatar
Cat_7
Expert User
Posts: 5103
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:59 am
Location: Sittard, The Netherlands

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Cat_7 »

Hi,

I uploaded two new experimental Qemu builds for OSX and Windows hosts:

One with some altivec acceleration (noticeable in slightly improved display speed).
One with the same improvements, but also supporting the screamer audio device.

OSX: Get them here...
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=8848&p=52104#p52104

Windows: get them here...
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=9028&p=53788#p53788

Best,
Cat_7
User avatar
adespoton
Forum All-Star
Posts: 3105
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:11 am
Location: Emaculation.com
Contact:

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by adespoton »

So the OS X hardware has to be 2014 or later, as AVX2 was introduced with the Haswell architecture; Sandy Bridge (2011) and Ivy Bridge (2012) don't have it.

That said, I don't think I'd want to attempt running OS X on QEMU-PPC on anything older than a 2014 Mac anyway; it'd be an awfully painful experience. PearPC would be a much better option there.
User avatar
Cat_7
Expert User
Posts: 5103
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:59 am
Location: Sittard, The Netherlands

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Cat_7 »

That said, I don't think I'd want to attempt running OS X on QEMU-PPC on anything older than a 2014 Mac anyway; it'd be an awfully painful experience. PearPC would be a much better option there.
Were it not that there is no jit enabled pearpc build for OSX ;-)

Best,
Cat_7
User avatar
adespoton
Forum All-Star
Posts: 3105
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:11 am
Location: Emaculation.com
Contact:

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by adespoton »

Back on my Core 2 Duo, I used PearPC Redscorp in a WineSkin. It had JIT and it outperformed the native OS X build :)
Ministar48
Student Driver
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:34 am

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Ministar48 »

Cat_7 wrote:Hi,

I uploaded two new experimental Qemu builds for OSX and Windows hosts:

One with some altivec acceleration (noticeable in slightly improved display speed).
One with the same improvements, but also supporting the screamer audio device.

Note that the OSX builds will only run on CPUs supporting the AVX2 extensions.

OSX: Get them here...
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=8848&p=52104#p52104

Windows: get them here...
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=9028&p=53788#p53788

Best,
Cat_7
Does the altivec acceleration require AVX2 on Windows?
User avatar
Cat_7
Expert User
Posts: 5103
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:59 am
Location: Sittard, The Netherlands

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Cat_7 »

I erroneously assumed the Altivec acceleration could only be achieved when compiling with support for AVX2 extensions.
Mark pointed out to me that Qemu can decide when to use the acceleration at runtime.

I fixed the OSX downloads, so they now also run on machines not supporting AVX2.

Best,
Cat_7
User avatar
Cat_7
Expert User
Posts: 5103
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:59 am
Location: Sittard, The Netherlands

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Cat_7 »

Does the altivec acceleration require AVX2 on Windows?
No, the windows builds run fine without.

Best,
Cat_7
User avatar
Cat_7
Expert User
Posts: 5103
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:59 am
Location: Sittard, The Netherlands

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Cat_7 »

From the qemu development list:
At least two machines, the PPC mac99 and MIPS fulong2e, have an ATI
gfx chip by default (Rage 128 Pro and M6/RV100 respectively) and
guests running on these and the PMON2000 firmware of the fulong2e
expect this to be available. Fortunately these are very similar chips
so they can be mostly emulated in the same device model. This patch
adds basic emulation of these ATI VGA chips.
Our openbios does not yet seem to support loading the required ati rom, but who knows, it might soon do ;-)

Best,
Cat_7
User avatar
adespoton
Forum All-Star
Posts: 3105
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:11 am
Location: Emaculation.com
Contact:

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by adespoton »

Great news! Props to whosever submitted that; I know that basic gfx emulation isn't easy.
User avatar
Cat_7
Expert User
Posts: 5103
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:59 am
Location: Sittard, The Netherlands

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Cat_7 »

Here are two images showing that the ati kext gets loaded in OSX Leopard and that the properties are shown in the device tree. The properties, however, were already available in Openbios. It seems the ati driver makes Openbios select these in the tree.
The kext does something, as the mouse disappears and only reappears after moving the mouse to the dock. However, the actual payload from the rom is not loaded. Also, the kexts stem from Tiger (which has the kexts available by default). Not all kext/bundles can be used: Including the ATIRage128GA.bundle (Graphics Acceleration) leads to a completely distorted screen.

I have no idea how to get this further... I read up on Darthnvaders endeavour into getting a nvidia 6600 rom to load, but all of that is way beyond my understanding....

Image

Image

Best,
Cat_7
User avatar
24bit
Forum All-Star
Posts: 1414
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:47 pm
Location: Germany

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by 24bit »

Still your screenshots do look promising, Cat_7!
Same procedure with Tiger?
Many kexts did not work well when moved from 10.4 to 10.5.
User avatar
Cat_7
Expert User
Posts: 5103
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:59 am
Location: Sittard, The Netherlands

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by Cat_7 »

Yes, for Tiger the same kext has to be removed.

However, as this does not offload work to an actual GPU, speed improvement will not be likely.

Best,
Cat_7
User avatar
adespoton
Forum All-Star
Posts: 3105
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:11 am
Location: Emaculation.com
Contact:

Re: GSOC qemu Boot Mac OS >= 8.5 on PowerPC system

Post by adespoton »

The check would be to see if Bugdom runs....
Post Reply