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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:06 am 
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Inquisitive Elf

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1.6 apparently properly supports OS X. http://wiki.qemu.org/ChangeLog/1.6


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:40 am 
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If that is true, how easily can a testing environment of Qemu (for OS X 10.8.x) be achieved capable of running OS X 10.4 Tiger with Classic? Is the speed acceptable?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:24 pm 
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PeterHolbrook wrote:
If that is true, how easily can a testing environment of Qemu (for OS X 10.8.x) be achieved capable of running OS X 10.4 Tiger with Classic? Is the speed acceptable?


Let's test it and find out :)

My guess is that it depends on what you're doing. The actual PPC emulation code in QEmu is the same stuff that's used in most other projects, so speed's likely going to be similar (or slightly faster) to using PearPC. However, like other OS X solutions, you won't get graphics acceleration (2d or 3d).

I look forward to testing it against PearPC under 10.8.x to see which performs better; even if it isn't better, hopefully I'll finally be able to run 9.1, 9.2, 10PB (unlikely), and 10.0.

[edit] Argh; should have read the notes first:
Mac OS X guests supported (10.2-10.4 for PPC, 10.4 for PPC64)
So still no PMMU support. I'm sure I could get 10.1 to work (I did under PearPC), but the missing OSes are still un-runnable in an emulated environment :(

Other notable features:
The Cocoa user interface now supports Mac OS X 10.6 better.
Support for TUN/TAP on Mac OS X (http://tuntaposx.sourceforge.net)
GDB 'g' packets may contain more registers than expected for arm, m68k and ppc guests.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:01 pm 
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I haven't actually read much about Qemu, and that very probably explains my huge ignorance on the subject, but much as I tried finding the relevant approach, I haven't figured out how to generate an OS X application to launch it. Any pointers anyone?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:37 pm 
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The easiest way is to use MacPorts, but that tree isn't up to date -- so your best bet is to compile it yourself from the command line. It won't compile in XCode. You also likely need to install a bunch of dependencies.

http://mikelev.in/2012/10/qemu-mac-os-x-success/ -- one man's success using homebrew.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:10 am 
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Wow! Thanks. Far too complicated for now. I'll probably wait to see what more advanced users say about newer Qemu releases and their ability to run Tiger (with Classic?) under ML. Hopefully, someone will create a self-contained OS X application that can launch the emulator.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:09 am 
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One would also need a recent build of openbios. I failed in building it earlier. But at least in Linux it would be easier to get a first impression of performance and functionality.

Best,
Cat_7


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:08 am 
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Let us know if you succeed and if running "Tiger" Classic is possible at all in the emulated environment.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:34 am 
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Inquisitive Elf

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One of the bloggers I follow has got it to work with 10.2, albeit with some Palette issues:
http://virtuallyfun.superglobalmegacorp.com/?p=3197

There's some other notes on building it. Unfortunately I have a friends wedding to attend today, but might try a build myself later in the week.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:19 am 
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Inquisitive Elf

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neozeed released a build of Qemu 1.6.0 for OS X. See http://virtuallyfun.superglobalmegacorp.com/?p=3223

I haven't tried it yet, but plan on giving it a go tonight.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:36 pm 
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I might have looked in the wrong place, but I haven't found a Qemu application. In the Qemu universe, is there anything remotely similar to an application that can be run by simply double-clicking it? Or is it all rather arcane, requiring the linking of various libraries and extensive use of the Terminal?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:14 pm 
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There are some GUis that ease the pain, but no recent ones for OSX. So you have to use the command line. Get one going, save it in text file, and the problem is solved.

Best,
Cat_7


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:05 am 
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Cat_7 wrote:
There are some GUis that ease the pain, but no recent ones for OSX. So you have to use the command line. Get one going, save it in text file, and the problem is solved.

Would there be a step-by-step tutorial guaranteed to produce a valid executable of the latest Qemu for OS X? I mean something like:

1. Place components A, B, C, D and E in folder such and such.
2. Go to Terminal and enter the command: ...
3. Enter the command: ...
...
500. Enter the command ...

You are done. Move Qemu.app to your Applications folder and double-click on it. Go to menu such and such, create a virtual machine and install Tiger on it.


Last edited by PeterHolbrook on Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:23 am 
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This all is hypothetical as long as we don't have access to a working set of programs, or someone else explaining how to make them work.
Yesterday I got as far as the installer for 10.3 and 10.4 coming up, but then it told me my emulated hardware doesn't support the installation. This was with the program downloadable from a post just above, and the limited knowledge at my disposal ;-)

So basically we have to wait before any useful guide can be constructed.

Best,
Cat_7


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:22 am 
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Cat_7 wrote:
So basically we have to wait before any useful guide can be constructed.


Fair enough.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:05 am 
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Inquisitive Elf

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I have been able to install Jaguar, but haven't been able to boot it yet.

Make sure you have your install media disk images on hand in ISO format.

Extract and copy the files:

  • Download the PPC version from http://virtuallyfun.superglobalmegacorp.com/?p=3223
  • Extract the ZIP to a folder (say in your home directory)
  • Extract glib.tar
  • Copy the contents of glib (so all the files in ./usr/local/lib/) to /usr/local/lib on your local machine.
  • Copy libintl.8.dylib and libpixman-1.0.dylib to /usr/local/lib

Create a hard disk image
  • Open a Terminal Window and cd to your qemu directory (eg ~/qemu-1.60-pre3)
  • Type the following to to use qemu-img to make a disk image 4GB image named machd.vmdk:
    Code:
    ./qemu-img create -f vmdk machd.vmdk 4G

Run QEMU
Terminal Window run the following:
Code:
./qemu-system-ppc -L pc-bios/ -m 256 -M g3beige -hda ./machd.vmdk -cpu G3 -boot d -cdrom ./Jaguar1.iso -prom-env 'boot-args=-v'

Important parts of this command are:
  • -m 256 the amount of memory in megabytes.
  • -M g3beige the machine type. The other option is mac99. If you're installing 10.3 or newer you'll need to use mac99. I haven't had any luck with it yet.
  • -hda machd.vmdk the hard disk file and path (there are other ways of specifying this, including using SCSI.
  • -cpu G3 - processor to emulate. Other options include G4 and ppc970, although the latter will need qemu-system-ppc64.
  • -boot d - this tells it to boot from cd by default. I suspect it refers to the ide channel/device. Use -boot c to boot off the hard disk (default)
  • -cdrom ./Jaguar1.iso - specifies the path to the cd-rom to emulate

That's all i have so far.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:02 am 
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superpete wrote:
I have been able to install Jaguar, but haven't been able to boot it yet.


I tried your commands, superpete (I thank you for that), and got the same result as yours so far. The installer of «Jaguar» does complete the installation on the machd.vmdk drive created by Qemu [that, I have to say, but after I used previously the «Disk Utility» shipped with the Install .iso to erase the machd.vmdk drive and format it to 'Mac OS Extended (journalized)', otherwise the disk wouldn't have been recognized as an installable volume].

But after the installation is complete, when time has come to re-boot off the Install .iso to launch «Jaguar», a message occurs in the end saying 'NO, NO, NO' = no valid bootable disk has been found, and the re-booting process launches da cappo the «Jaguar» installer from the .iso with the only perspective of installing back 10.2 to the machd.vmdk disk.

<I am on a MacBook Pro running «Mountain Lion 10.8.4»>


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:20 am 
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To be bootable for PPC Mac OS X, a disk not only needs to be formatted 'Mac OS Extended (journaled)', it also needs to be partitioned with 'Apple Partition Map'. You can install a system on a disk that is not correctly partitioned, but you cannot boot from that disk. Could that be the issue here?

Disk Utility offers three partition options: GUID Partition Table (for Intel Mac boot disk), Apple Partition Map (for PPC Mac boot disk), and Master Boot Record (for DOS and Windows).


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:52 am 
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Have you tried 10.2 ..? It is very slow though...

Thanks for outlining the steps, I should add them to my blog.

_________________
don't do today what you can put off until tomorrow.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:35 am 
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Inquisitive Elf

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Ronald P. Regensburg wrote:
To be bootable for PPC Mac OS X, a disk not only needs to be formatted 'Mac OS Extended (journaled)', it also needs to be partitioned with 'Apple Partition Map'. You can install a system on a disk that is not correctly partitioned, but you cannot boot from that disk. Could that be the issue here?

Disk Utility offers three partition options: GUID Partition Table (for Intel Mac boot disk), Apple Partition Map (for PPC Mac boot disk), and Master Boot Record (for DOS and Windows).


Jaguar pre-dates all of that, so Disk Utility presumably only partitions as Apple Partition Map (theres no option). My guess is either the install didn't complete properly, or I need to send some commands to OpenBIOS to boot off the HDD (on my install it tries but freezes...).

neozeed wrote:
Have you tried 10.2 ..? It is very slow though...

Thanks for outlining the steps, I should add them to my blog.

I tried but didn't have much luck. I see you posted the 1.6.0 binaries today too, I'll have a go with them tonight. Thank you very much for building these as too - it's very much appreciated. I'm an avid reader of your blog (I think I post under my real name there) and enjoy both your and your guest's posts immensly.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:25 am 
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Once Jaguar is installed you should of course boot from the hd image, and not from the cd image, so change the command line accordingly:

"boot d" into "boot c"

I got Jaguar to boot. Runs fine. I tried to start Classic inside Jaguar, but that failed. It didn't crash, it just didn't show the classic desktop.

Best,
Cat_7


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:27 am 
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Cat_7 wrote:
I got Jaguar to boot. Runs fine. I tried to start Classic inside Jaguar, but that failed. It didn't crash, it just didn't show the classic desktop.


I switched to OS X from Windows back in the good old days of Panther. In those days and in Tiger, I don't actually recall a "Classic desktop". If I remember correctly, if you installed Classic, there was a System Preferences panel that actually let you load the Classic environment (which was invisible, except for a "9" icon in the Dock), which then gave you access to Classic applications. Was Jaguar any different?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:41 am 
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I see this:

http://www.vectronicsappleworld.com/col ... /desk8.jpg

Best,
Cat_7


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:57 am 
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Oh, I see what you mean. I guess we are closer to running OS 9.2.2 on modern Macs, but more work on Qemu will probably be required.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:04 pm 
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At least on Qemu 1.6 for Windows, you can run 10.2, 10.3 and 10.4 images that were installed with PearPC.

Best,
Cat_7


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