Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's screen.

About BasiliskII, a 68k Mac emulator for Windows, MacOSX, and Linux that can run System 7.x through MacOS 8.1.

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NavyBrat
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Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's screen.

Post by NavyBrat »

I'm so sorry, but I wanted to ask this question.

It's getting harder and harder to see Basillisk's screen depending on your monitor's resolution. As you know the same is true of SheepShaver as well.

The higher your monitor's resolution, the tinier Basillisk's screen.

This is regardless of what size you choose in the Basillisk preferences. Basillisk's screen becomes tiny in many cases.

With Mini vMac you can use the "Magnify" feature, which effectively doubles the size of its screen on your monitor.

Are there any plans to make a more readable screen for Basillisk and SheepShaver?

Thank you.
uyjulian
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's scr

Post by uyjulian »

You can set higher resolution for BasiliskII to make use of your monitor's increased resolution.
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's scr

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

It depends on what the issue is.

1. If you want the BasiliskII (or SheepShaver) screen (window) size larger, you can set a larger resolution for the emulator. You do not need to choose between the preset sizes. I myself use a 1280x800 resolution in SheepShaver. Best choose even numbers for the sizes.

2. If the problem is that everything inside the BasiliskII window gets smaller in higher monitor resolutions, you can try running BasiliskII full-screen. If the BasiliskII screen size (resolution) is smaller than the resolution of your monitor, everything in BasiliskII gets larger.

If your host system is macOS, you can use advanced settings to change the scaling algorithm in order to keep the enlarged BasiliskII (and SheepShaver) display sharp on a high resolution Retina screen. See: https://www.emaculation.com/doku.php/sh ... uilds_only
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NavyBrat
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's scr

Post by NavyBrat »

Thank you Mr. Regensburg.

I just wanted to know if there are any plans to add a magnification feature like the one Mini vMac has to Basillisk and SheepShaver? It's a much needed feature for both emulators.

I'm so sorry and please correct me if I'm wrong, but the resolution settings in both Basillisk II and SheepShaver are somewhat misunderstood.

These settings actually don't change the resolution either emulator runs at. They only change how much space each emulator takes up on your screen. Both emulators always run at your screen's resolution.

For instance, a 640x480 emulator setting on a MacBook Pro screen at 1440x900 gives you an emulator that takes up 640x480 in the middle of a 1440x900 screen. Likewise for any other setting. Both emulators always run at your screen's resolution.

And although it's true both Basillisk and SheepShaver can be run in full screen mode, I've had them stick sometimes in that mode, often requiring a reboot with the Power button when nothing else will unstick the computer and that takes a massive toll on the computer's hard drive.

Likewise, switching back and forth between the emulator's full page mode and the computer's normal screen makes extra and unnecessary work on the monitor and as a technician I can say this. And when considering how often you'll need to switch back and forth when you are using your computer for average needs, that's not only quite a hardware workout, but you'll have to keep track of the modes as well each time you switch.

I completely agree, you can get a better resolution by using the emulator's full-page mode, but it would be so much easier, less frustrating, and less damaging if you could put Basillisk and SheepShaver into Window mode and apply a magnification like the one Mini vMac uses.

I hope one day both Basillisk and SheepShaver will have this much-needed feature.

In the meantime, I thank you nice help.
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's scr

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

NavyBrat wrote:For instance, a 640x480 emulator setting on a MacBook Pro screen at 1440x900 gives you an emulator that takes up 640x480 in the middle of a 1440x900 screen. Likewise for any other setting. Both emulators always run at your screen's resolution.
Exactly, that is how it works. At least in window mode.
Likewise, switching back and forth between the emulator's full page mode and the computer's normal screen makes extra and unnecessary work on the monitor
Is that true? In what way will toggling between window mode and full-screen mode (using control-return) cause extra work on the monitor?

Edit: Don't you use your emulators on a OSX/macOS host? With the current builds of these emulators the full-screen/window toggle uses the OSX/macOS system feature that is used for all applications that can run in full-screen mode. Works smoothly and is no worse for the monitor than any other movement on the screen.
I just wanted to know if there are any plans to add a magnification feature like the one Mini vMac has to Basillisk and SheepShaver? It's a much needed feature for both emulators.
I am not aware of any such plans. It depends on someone with developer skills to take an interest in adding a similar feature to BasiliskII and SheepShaver.
Last edited by Ronald P. Regensburg on Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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uyjulian
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's scr

Post by uyjulian »

Unless you are using a CRT, mode switching should not take a toll on the monitor.

If you get stuck in full-screen, you can press Ctrl-Esc to quit the emulator.
Last edited by uyjulian on Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's scr

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

uyjulian wrote:Unless you are using a CRT, mode switching should take a toll on the monitor.
How can that be? It does nothing else than moving the image on the screen. If this would take a toll on the monitor, watching a movie or playing a game would have a much worse impact on the monitor.
If you get stuck in full-screen, you can press Ctrl-Esc to quit the emulator.
That is only an option when the emulator becomes unresponsive. Otherwise you can simply shut down the emulated machine from the Special men. Ctrl-Esc equals a hard shut down and can cause file system corruption on the mounted volumes.
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's scr

Post by uyjulian »

Ronald P. Regensburg wrote:
uyjulian wrote:Unless you are using a CRT, mode switching should take a toll on the monitor.
How can that be? It does nothing else than moving the image on the screen. If this would take a toll on the monitor, watching a movie or playing a game would have a much worse impact on the monitor.
Sorry, I meant to add a "not" in there.
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NavyBrat
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's scr

Post by NavyBrat »

I thank everybody for their input.

However, as a computer technician, I do stand behind everything I've said.

Dear Mr. Regensburg. You've been more than kind. And I sincerely hope that a developer does come along to implement such a much needed magnification feature like in Mini vMac:

"I am not aware of any such plans. It depends on someone with developer skills to take an interest in adding a similar feature to BasiliskII and SheepShaver."

I thank you for your time.
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's scr

Post by adespoton »

The answer to your magnification question was already answered: if you're running on a macOS host, you can adjust the scaling ratio (not limited to 2x like with Mini vMac). You can also use the built-in magnification system on your host -- macOS, Windows 10 and Ubuntu 18 all have one.
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's screen.

Post by kanjitalk755 »

I have implemented magnification feature in the window mode.
Try my fork with appending following line to ~/.basilisk_ii_prefs or ~/.sheepshaver_prefs.

Code: Select all

mag_rate 2
https://github.com/kanjitalk755/macemu
uyjulian
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's screen.

Post by uyjulian »

There is also the scale up fork here, which lets you resize the window on runtime: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10713
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's screen.

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

kanjitalk755 wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:52 am I have implemented magnification feature in the window mode.
Try my fork with appending following line to ~/.basilisk_ii_prefs or ~/.sheepshaver_prefs.

Code: Select all

mag_rate 2
https://github.com/kanjitalk755/macemu
I tried a BasiliskII build from your fork. (Didn't have time earlier, sorry.)
I made sure JIT was enabled and I added to the ~/.basilisk_ii_prefs file:

Code: Select all

mag_rate 2
scale_nearest true
The magnification (doubling window height and width) works fine. It has to be set before BasiliskII is launched. It is not possible to scale or change the magnification while BasiliskII is running. When I tried control-return I got a black screen with no way to get out other than using control-escape to quit BasiliskII.

I myself prefer the full-screen feature rather than this magnification feature to enlarge the display. This magnification feature may be useful for some, especially when one prefers to run BasiliskII (or SheepShaver) in window mode. Is it possible to make control-return behave more gracefully in combination with the magnification feature?

Edit: I found that the control-return black screen is also present when the magnification feature is not used. In this build control-return cannot be used.
kanjitalk755
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's screen.

Post by kanjitalk755 »

Fixed.

BTW, this issue was related to new feature, enabling gamma ramp.
We can select the behavior by setting a pref item "gammaramp".
  • off: don't use
  • fullscreen: use when fullscreen mode only
  • on: use always (default)
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's screen.

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

I do not think it is behaving now as it should.

The control-return window/fullscreen toggle now works with each of the three gammaramp settings.

But without adding a gammaramp item to the prefs file (gammaramp on by default), and with BasiliskII in front, everything on my screen appears bleached out. It looks a little better with "gammaramp off", but even then everything becomes lighter and changes color with BasiliskII in front.

Yesterday's build had the control-return issue, but it did not have these brightness and color anomalies.

What exactly is this gammaramp supposed to achieve or solve?
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's screen.

Post by kanjitalk755 »

See the discussion at:
https://github.com/kanjitalk755/macemu/issues/54
Ronald P. Regensburg wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:18 am It looks a little better with "gammaramp off", but even then everything becomes lighter and changes color with BasiliskII in front.
If "gammaramp off", it is the same as before, and there should be no change in brightness.
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's screen.

Post by Elyus »

Ronald P. Regensburg wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:18 am What exactly is this gammaramp supposed to achieve or solve?
Upon further thought, the prefs item might more accurately be called `gammapassthrough`. Rakslice implemented the core functionality recently. Previously, all display settings were fully virtualized, but with this change, the emulated Mac's gamma settings can be passed directly to the host's physical monitor. The benefit is better technical accuracy of the guest's display, but I agree: the default gamma and color profiles that Apple optimized for old CRT displays can look too bright and washed-out on modern machines. This is the case on my display, so I have been using "gammaramp off" or "gammaramp fullscreen".

Perhaps this feature should be "off" by default and only enabled if the flag is provided in preferences? Generally, I would prefer the more accurate implementation, but it's true that monitor technology has changed and few users would need the display accuracy this feature supports. If it's a prominent concern, I'm sure we could discuss more on GitHub or that kanjitalk would be open to a PR.
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's screen.

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

This is really only for very critical and advanced users. Maybe it does show more accurate display in the emulator, but it is very disturbing for the average user. If this should be implemented at all, it should be off by default. And then really off when it is off. Now it isn't.

In my latest build, also with "gammaramp off" the screen brightness is affected. When I click on the host's desktop everything looks normal, when I click in the BasiliskII window, everything becomes lighter. This does not happen in older builds.

With "gammaramp on" the effect is much more pronounced, clicking in the BasiliskII window, makes the whole screen look washed out. Also the content of the BasiliskII window looks paler then I think it should.
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's screen.

Post by kanjitalk755 »

Fixed:
The default of gammaramp was changed to off.
No gamma tables are changed if gammaramp is off.
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's screen.

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

I think it is better this way.

But it does not work with some configurations in SheepShaver:

It works for me in BasiliskII with System 7.5.5 installed and with System 7.0.1 installed.

It works for me in SheepShaver with MacOS9 installed and MacOS 8.6 installed (with new world rom)
It works for me in SheepShaver with MacOS 8.0.1 installed and with System 7.5.3 installed (with old world rom)

But it does not work for me in SheepShaver with System 7.5.5 installed (with old world rom)
I have four different 7.5.5 setups, none worked. With "gammaramp on" they behave as with "gammaramp off".
Very strange, especially while it does work with 7.5.3 and the same rom file.
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's screen.

Post by kanjitalk755 »

I confirmed that System 7.5.5 doesn't call driver control which sets gamma tables.
So gammaramp does't work.
It may need some INIT or cdev.
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's screen.

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Yes, that is what I just now discovered also.

In my 7.5.5 installation in BasiliskII there is a "Mac HiRes Std Gamma" gamma table selected in Monitors control panel. When I set it to "uncorrected table" (translated from Dutch) gammaramp does not work.
In the 7.5.5 installations I have in SheepShaver, the monitors control panel only has the "uncorrected table" as an option.

I suppose it needs something like ColorSync installed.

Edit: No. it is not ColorSync. That is installed, with profiles.
I do not know how and where the gamma tables that appear as choices in the Monitors control panel are installed.
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's screen.

Post by rickyzhang »

For hi-res physical monitor, I have a better solution.

You set a fixed virtual screen resolution in a window from your BII configuration file and then adjust the size of the window at runtime.

Scaling the windows maintains the ratio of the virtual screen resolution. But you ends up viewing under a larger windows from your hi-res monitor.

Note that it uses SDL2 so it looks really great in Linux by OpenGL from graphic card acceleration or in Mac OS X by Metal.

See my screen cast: https://youtu.be/RzwpeUe787E
There is an App for that!
https://github.com/rickyzhang82
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Re: Higher your monitor's resolution, tinier Basillisk's screen.

Post by gingerbeardman »

@kanjitalk755 thanks for your retina-friendly changes to BasiliskII !
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