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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:32 am 
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Hello Cat_7, Ronald, et al,

After a long hiatus, yesterday I decided to see if I could set up the Mac Classic environment on my 24" iMac running the latest version of Yosemite, and using Basilisk II Intel 20140301.

My goal in setting up Basilisk was to see if I could run my old Hermes II BBS again, which is a 68k app.

Well, after working on it all day, I am happy to say that I not only got Basilisk set up properly on my iMac, but I also got Hermes II running as well.

However, there is one nagging problem which I have not been able to resolve yet: No one can telnet in to my BBS because connections are being refused.

I am hoping that if I share the symptoms, along with some of the details of my actual setup, someone here will be able to tell me what I am doing wrong.

As noted, I am running Yosemite 10.10.2 on a Core 2 Duo 24" iMac.

I have a 15Mbs Internet connection via a cable modem, which is connected to my Airport Extreme wi-fi router -- the latest version of the router.

I have zero Internet connection problems on the Yosemite side. Not only can I download easily, but I push out a lot of data as well from my web server.

Here are some of my Airport Extreme setup details:

1. Using the "Airport Utility" app, on the "Network" tab, "Router Mode" is set to "DHCP and NAT". I have never had a problem with this setting.

2. Also on the "Network" tab, in the "Port Settings" section, I created a new entry for telnet and set the public and private TCP and UDP port to 23. I am not sure if the UDP port is necessary or not.

3. In that same port mapping section for telnet, "Private IP Address" is set to the NAT address of this particular machine, which is 10.0.1.3.

Here are some of my Basilisk setup details:

1. I closely followed the setup instructions that are found on the emaculation.com website.

2. On Basilisk's "Serial/Network" tab, "Ethernet Interface" is set to "slirp". "Tunnel MacOS Networking over UDP" is NOT enabled.

3. BTW, I discovered that Basilisk will not work if I place the "BasiliskII" folder in my "Applications" folder. Apparently, it has to be in the Home folder.

Here are some of my MacOS setup details:

1. I installed MacOS 7.5.3, and then upgraded to 7.5.5.

2. Open Transport is 1.1. I wanted to upgrade to 1.3, but I no longer have any of my old System disks because I trashed Mac OS 6, 7 and 8 years ago. Neither could I find an Open Transport 1.3 update on the web. Only the 1.3.1 update is available, but you need 1.3 for that.

3. Working in the MacOS environment, when I click on the "Chooser" under the Apple menu, it says that AppleTalk is active.

4. If I click on Apple Menu/Control Panels/Appletalk, on the little AppleTalk window next to the "Connect via" option, "Ethernet" is selected.

5. If I click on Apple Menu/Control Panels/TCP/IP, on the little TCP/IP window next to the "Connect via" option, "Ethernet" is selected.

6. If I click on Apple Menu/Control Panels/TCP/IP, on the little TCP/IP window next to the "Configure" option, "Using DHCP Server" is selected.

7. In all of the other fields on that window, it says "will be supplied by server". However, this has me rather confused, because if I start up the 68k version of iCab within my MacOS setup and go to a website, those four fields display data which does not match what is displayed in my Airport Base Station settings.

For example, right now, in the TCP/IP control panel, it says the following, which I assume are INTERNAL addresses:

IP Address: 10.0.2.15
Subnet mask: 255.255.255.0
Router Address: 10.0.2.2
Name server addr: 10.0.2.3

In contrast, in my Airport Extreme, on the "Internet" tab, it shows my EXTERNAL IP address, and the Router Address and the DNS Server addresses of my actual ISP.

Furthermore, if I look at Yosemite's "Network" prefs pane in the "System Preferences" app, it shows that my computer is connected via Wi-Fi, and it says the following:

"Wi-Fi is connected to [my network name here] and has the IP address of 10.0.1.3."

So if my computer's internal IP address is 10.0.1.3 -- as it has been for a long time -- why is the TCP/IP control panel in my Basilisk/MacOS setup showing something else? Shouldn't they match? Is this why no one can telnet in to my BBS?

As I said earlier, I also run a web server on the Yosemite side, and as far as I know, no one has trouble connecting to my web server.

Returning to my Airport Extreme setup, as I mentioned before, on the "Network" tab in the "Airport Utility" app, I have "Router Mode" set to "DHCP and NAT". Right below that, next to "DHCP Range", it says "10.0.1.2 to 10.0.1.200", which is what I would expect.

So again, the thing I don't understand is why the TCP/IP control panel in my Basilisk setup is displaying 10.0.2.x internal addresses, instead of 10.0.1.x addresses. It is as if there is another DHCP server somewhere -- besides my Airport Extreme DHCP server -- which is using different -- and conflicting -- IP parameters with my MacOS setup.

I am wondering if this is why no one can telnet in to my BBS.

Question: Should I be using "Manually" instead in the TCP/IP control panel in Basilisk? If so, what settings should I use?

For the record, I tried manually using 10.0.1.3 for the internal IP address, and 10.0.1.1 for the router address in the TCP/IP control panel, but that broke my Internet connectivity in Basilisk.

What also confounds me is the fact that with my current settings in Basilisk and Mac OS 7.5.5, I do have Internet connectivity. As I said, if I fire up iCab 2.9.9 68k, I can visit websites from within Basilisk, even though a lot of them freeze up iCab and Basilisk.

Regarding my Hermes II BBS setup, I created four nodes. In the preferences for each node, there is an option to set the node to Modem Port, Printer Port, AppleTalk, TCP/IP and None.

The first two are obviously useless on this iMac. However, even when I try AppleTalk and TCP/IP, and then try to telnet in locally using the Terminal app and my domain name, or my static IP address, or "locahost", or the machine's loop address -- 127.0.0.1 -- the Terminal repeatedly gives me the following error message:

Trying 127.0.0.1...
telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host

I apologize for making this message so long, but I also know that ones needs to provide specific setup details in order to resolve such problems.

Thanks for listening, and I hope that someone can offer me an easy, clear-cut solution so that Old Schoolers can telnet in to my BBS.

If you do offer a solution, please be clear in your instructions, being as I am an old geezer with an eroding brain. Thanks! :)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:15 am 
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Hi,

Thanks for an elaborate description of your issue. It does indeed make it easier to provide an answer. The answer itself will also be elaborate....

1. Slirp-based networking does indeed invoke a Basilisk-internal DHCP server, hence the tcp/ip settings you see.
2. Basilisk's IP address is not transparent to the outside world.

3. Running services such as your BB inside Basilisk would require it to be a client on your network in your normal IP range. This can be achieved with the Basilisk II build with Appletalk support (See forum). This build also allows you to use a static IP-address on your network, which comes in handy to have the service always available at the same address.

4. If you allow telnet from the outside world you would need to tell your router that that service is available at the IP address of Basilisk, not the IP address of your Yosemite host. So I assume that the call to telnet has to be forwarded to the static IP address you give inside Basilisk.

5. Please note that the Basilisk build I proposed above does not support Appletalk to be routed over wireless connections. Whether telnet is routed over wireless connections, I don't really know, but I assume it is supported.

I would suggest you first try to get Basilisk with Appletalk to run. You can use the same disk image/rom you have now.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8067
1. Download the first version.
2. Install the tun/tap package for yosemite:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/tuntapo ... z/download
3. Set the preferences according to the guide.
4. Set Basilisk TCP/IP to use a free IP address in your network and use the netmask/router/dns settings from your normal network.

See if you can ping Basilisk's IP address. If so, you should also be able to telnet into it from your host. Next would be to set forwarding the telnet calls from the outside world to the Basilisk IP address in your router.

Good luck!
Cat_7


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:14 am 
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Hello Cat_7,

Thanks for your quick reply. I really appreciate it.

Before I attempt to follow your instructions, I'd appreciate a few clarifications:

1. When you say that "Running services such as your BB inside Basilisk would require it to be a client on your network in your normal IP range", you are referring to an INTERNAL LAN IP address, correct? In other words, if my iMac has been assigned 10.0.1.3 by my Airport Extreme wi-fi router, then inside Basilisk/MacOS, I can manually assign a static IP address of 10.0.1.4, or anything thereafter, correct?

2. When you say "If you allow telnet from the outside world you would need to tell your router that that service is available at the IP address of Basilisk, not the IP address of your Yosemite host", you are basically stating what I said above, right? In other words, if I use the TCP/IP control panel in Basilisk/MacOS to manually use 10.0.1.4, then in the port forwarding section of my Apple Extreme, I need to use that SAME internal IP address, and NOT 10.0.1.3, which is the internal IP address of the iMac itself.

3. When you say "Please note that the Basilisk build I proposed above does not support Appletalk to be routed over wireless connections.", are you stating that the setup you are suggesting won't work unless I switch from wi-fi to hardwired; and connect an ethernet cable from my cable modem directly to my iMac?

4. When you say "I would suggest you first try to get Basilisk with Appletalk to run.", I am a bit confused. I am currently using the latest Intel build of Basilisk from 2014-03-01. According to the "Chooser", it says that AppleTalk is active. Are you saying that it really isn't active, even though it says that it is?

I apologize for the many questions, but I want to make sure that I properly understand this before I try the suggested setup.

I ask for your patience.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:35 am 
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Hi,

1. Correct.
2. Correct
3. No, I stated that Appletalk will not work over wireless, but telnet probably will. Using a wired connection could be a course of action to follow only when things don't work out over wireless.
4. While you have the Appletalk protocol set to active in Basilisk, Basilisk cannot find Appletalk servers when using the slirp networking option. But working Appletalk in itself is not required. I merely referred to the Basilisk version that has this functionality available because it uses a different way of connecting to networks. This alternative networking approach is needed to get access to some program running inside Basilisk, not the Appletalk functionality in itself.

EDIT: I just gave it a go, and I can access Hermes from my local network using my external IP address:
Why don't you give it a try, telnet to 84.28.128.128
I also run the default Mac OS 8 website at that address.

Best,
Cat_7


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:37 pm 
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Hello again Cat_7,

Well, I've run into a problem with Basilisk crashing, the minute I hit the "Start" button, so I can't even install Mac OS 7.5.3.

Here is what I have done thus far:

1. I verified that I have the latest build of XQuartz installed -- 2.7.7.

2. I downloaded and installed the "tuntap_20141104.tar.gz" package. I assume that this just works in the background, and I was not presented with any options to set for it, and I see no user interface for it anywhere.

3. I downloaded and installed the "BasiliskII_64bit-etherhelper-JIT-SDL-09-07-2013.zip" package.

Initially, I duplicated my original Basilisk installation folder, and then simply replaced the Basilisk app with the one from the above archive. However, when the app kept crashing upon hitting the "Start" button, I decided to do a fresh installation. So I deleted the "MacOS753" and "InstallerParts" disks that I had created previously, and I created new ones.

I also replaced the "PERFORMA.ROM" and"DiskTools_MacOS8" files with new ones. I made sure to lock the latter file.

I also discovered that there is a slightly newer version of the tun/tap package on the Sourceforge website called "tuntap_20150118.tar.gz", so I installed that as well. However, I think that the only difference is that the documentation was updated.

I also made sure that the internal name of my wired ethernet connection is "en0", and used that on the "Serial/Network" tab.

I also made sure to rename this version of Basilisk to just "BasiliskII".

Despite starting from scratch, and doing all of the above, Basilisk crashes the minute that I hit the "Start" button, after setting all of the parameters.

As a last resort, I activated ethernet by connecting an ethernet cable from a port on the back of my Airport Extreme router, to a port on my iMac.

Upon doing the above, in Yosemite's "Network" prefs pane, in the "Ethernet" section it now says "Ethernet is currently active and has the IP address 10.0.1.2." The settings are as follows:

Configure IPv4: Using DHCP
IP Address: 10.0.1.2
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Router: 10.0.1.1
DNS Server: 10.0.1.1

In the "Wi-Fi" section of the "Network" prefs pane, it continues to say "Wi-Fi is connected to [my network name here] and has the IP address 10.0.1.3."

In my Yosemite menubar, "Bwanadik" also reports that my Local IP is 10.0.1.2, so I am assuming that a hardwired ethernet connection takes precedence over a Wi-Fi assigned IP address.

At any rate, I don't know what is wrong now, or why Basilisk keeps crashing, even before I install MacOS.

I cleared the "Console" app window and then launched Basilisk again. Here is what the Console shows when I launch Basilisk and then hit the "Start" button:

3/2/15 12:30:32.275 AM defaults[14292]:

The domain/default pair of (.GlobalPreferences, AppleCollationOrder) does not exist

3/2/15 12:30:34.181 AM SIMBL Agent[419]: warning: failed to get scripting definition from /Users/oldgeezer/BasiliskII/BasiliskIIGUI.app; it may not be scriptable.

3/2/15 12:30:34.182 AM SIMBL Agent[419]: AppleEvents: Send port for process has no send right, port=( port:27239/0x6a67 rcv:1,send:0,d:0 limit:5) (findOrCreate()/AEMachUtils.cp #526) com.apple.main-thread

3/2/15 12:30:34.182 AM SIMBL Agent[419]: AppleEvents: Send port for process has no send right, port=( port:27239/0x6a67 rcv:1,send:0,d:0 limit:5) (findOrCreate()/AEMachUtils.cp #526) com.apple.main-thread

3/2/15 12:30:57.000 AM kernel[0]: Cannot enforce a hard page-zero for ///Users/oldgeezer/BasiliskII/BasiliskII.app/Contents/MacOS/BasiliskII

3/2/15 12:30:57.507 AM taskgated[77]: no signature for pid=14399 (cannot make code: UNIX[No such process])

3/2/15 12:30:57.514 AM com.apple.xpc.launchd[1]: (com.apple.xpc.launchd.oneshot.0x1000000b.BasiliskIIGUI[14285]) Service exited with abnormal code: 9

Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks again.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:18 pm 
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That is nasty, but shows a problem our emulators are facing on OSX.

Please download the Basilisk version under number 4 in this post:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8067

It is a bit slower, but will not crash ;-)

You were on the right track, but happenend to run into the incompatitilies of a 64 bit version of Basilisk. The only thing needed was a 32 bit version of Basilisk, as linked to above.
If you still have the backup of your old installation, please restore it to your Basilisk folder and place the download in the folder (name it BasiliskII, as you did earlier). No need to start all over if you had a running system.

Best,
cat_7


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:10 pm 
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Hello again Cat_7,

Well, finally, some good news!

After working on this project for a few days now, following your latest instructions, I finally got telnet working on my BBS.

I am still a little mystified, because when I use the Terminal app on the Yosemite side, the only way I can connect to my BBS is by using my external static IP address.

If I use my actual domain name, or localhost, or any other internal IP address, the connection is refused.

Oddly enough, I also have the old Public Address BBS software installed in my Basilisk setup as well. I mainly installed Public Address so that I can use its ANSI editor. However, if I open a telnet terminal in Public Address, I can use any of the following to connect to my BBS:

localhost
127.0.0.1
10.0.1.4 (internal static IP I assigned to Basilisk setup)
202.128.4.177 (external IP assigned by my ISP)
endtimeprophecy.net

Please give them a try on your end and see what happens. Other than the Welcome Screen, I haven't had time yet to make any new screens for my BBS. I wish I had saved my old BBS setup from years ago. It would have saved me a lot time in creating new ANSI screens. I'll be making a new Main Menu next, probably tomorrow.

BTW, yes, I did try out your IP address, and I did in fact connect to your BBS. For a minute there I was jealous, because yours worked, while mine didn't. :) :roll:

Thanks so much for your help, and your patience. I really appreciate it. Now that I worked so hard to set up Hermes II, maybe I'll get five BBS visitors during the next year! :razz:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:46 pm 
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Hi,

Good news!

I should not be connect to these, while you should be able to connect to only the last one with telnet, because the others refer to your OSX host:
localhost
127.0.0.1
10.0.1.4 (internal static IP I assigned to Basilisk setup)

But I can connect to these on port 23 (telnet):
202.128.4.177(external IP assigned by my ISP)
endtimeprophecy.net

No need to get jealous, the demo was meant to keep you motivated ;-)

Best,
Cat_7


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:57 pm 
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Cat_7,

So are you saying that you were able to connect to my BBS using both my domain name, as well as my external IP address?

If so, that is as it should be.

Yes, I know that you should not be able to connect using the other three, because they are all internal -- NAT -- IP addresses.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:30 am 
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Old-School-BBSer wrote:
If I use my actual domain name, or localhost, or any other internal IP address, the connection is refused.

Oddly enough, I also have the old Public Address BBS software installed in my Basilisk setup as well. I mainly installed Public Address so that I can use its ANSI editor. However, if I open a telnet terminal in Public Address, I can use any of the following to connect to my BBS:

localhost
127.0.0.1
10.0.1.4 (internal static IP I assigned to Basilisk setup)
202.128.4.177 (external IP assigned by my ISP)
endtimeprophecy.net


Yeah; this is your networking interface at fault, a bit of NAT, a bit of the network bridging BII is doing (two IP addresses on one NIC). Also, did you set up DNS on BII?

Good to hear you got everything working... especially because I was considering doing the same thing myself, and run up Hermes through Hotline.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:33 am 
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Cat_7,

What is the very latest version of the Mac OS that I can install with the current Basilisk setup that I am using?

Also, now that I got Basilisk working properly, I am going way back in time and was just trying to install the old Hotline server, that is, the original 1.2.3 68k version.

However, when I try to launch it, I get the following error message:

"Transport support is required but not available. Please install the necessary software."

I have Open Transport 1.1 installed, so what gives?

Thanks my friend! :)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:40 am 
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adespoton wrote:

Yeah; this is your networking interface at fault, a bit of NAT, a bit of the network bridging BII is doing (two IP addresses on one NIC). Also, did you set up DNS on BII?

Good to hear you got everything working... especially because I was considering doing the same thing myself, and run up Hermes through Hotline.


Thanks!

So did you try visiting my BBS yet?

Just use 202.128.4.177 or else endtimeprophecy.net

It is a really simple affair, just to see if I could even do it. I've only made a new ANSI welcome screen so far. All of the other screens are still the ugly defaults.

Now I am trying to see if I can set up a 68k Hotline server as well. I ran one for about eight years back in the day.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:28 am 
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Connected to 202.128.4.177.guam.net.
Escape character is '^]'.

Connection closed by foreign host.

--At least you've got another data point now :)

Reminds me -- I should still see if I have my old database anywhere that maps IP addresses to hotline user logins :) We used it for some gatekeeping bots on a number of servers I adminned. It was a collection of IP addresses and account logins for some of the largest hotline servers back in the day, and was really effective for blacklisting and whitelisting, as well as figuring out user aliases :)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:38 am 
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Hi,

Have to sleep sometimes ;-)
The latest Mac OS you can install is Mac OS 8.1
And yes, I was also able to connect to your machine with telnet on both 202.128.4.177 and the domain name.

Best,
Cat7


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:02 pm 
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I was a member of that BBS circa 2009. I found it when I was looking for a 68k bbs client.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:53 pm 
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ClockWise wrote:
I was a member of that BBS circa 2009. I found it when I was looking for a 68k bbs client.


Are you saying that you were once a member of my BBS; that is, the "Armageddon BBS", formerly known as the "Treasure Trove BBS"?

I've actually been running it on and off since 1993-1994. I ran it straight for about eight years, then took it down for a number of years, then put it back up again in 2008, I believe, and then took it down again about two years later. Now it is up again.

In related news, just a short while ago, I also set up my old "Armageddon Server" using an ancient version of the Hotline server software. I put my articles, poetry, graphics and a bit of other stuff on it.

Earlier today, I was also trying to set up SheepShaver so that I can run some PPC apps instead of just 68k apps. However, I ran into some technical problems, which maybe I will discuss here tomorrow.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:00 pm 
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Cat_7,

I tried and I tried to install Mac OS 8.0 and Mac OS 8.1, but Basilisk, or the system, just wouldn't let me do it. I tried .img images, .dmg images, installers in folders, and even an installer CD, but nothing worked. As a result, I only got as far as Mac OS 7.6.1 in Basilisk. :(

Maybe if I am up to it, you can help me tomorrow to try to get my SheepShaver installation working. I read all of the online documentation, but some of it is just a bit too technical for me.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:36 pm 
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Wow... I didn't realize you were referring to *that* Armageddon BBS :) I'm pretty sure I had an account on Treasure Trove BBS once upon a time too :) I think the last time I logged on was around 1995 though. I seem to recall it went down, and didn't come up again for a number of months. And then I got into writing Diku levels ;)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:19 am 
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Yes, Adespoton, THAT particular BBS. :)

Following are some excerpts from my 1997 article entitled "The Internet: Our Final Frontier; Your Last Chance?", where I discuss my early forays into the world of Macintosh computers, Hermes II BBS software, and the Hotline client and server software suite:

----- Begin quotes -----

. . . So let us begin by going back in time to the early 1990's, when I became involved with the FidoNet network, and set up my first BBS -- Armageddon -- which was originally called "The Treasure Trove" BBS.

For those of you who may be new to online communications, there is a good possibility that you have never heard of FidoNet. Briefly, back in the late 1980's and early 1990's, FidoNet was arguably as popular as the Internet is today. In fact, some people who are still diehard FidoNet members in its waning hours, won't hesitate to inform the "unlearned", that FidoNet was one of the precursors to the now-public Internet. It was -- and still is -- comprised of individual BBSes -- that is, Bulletin Board Services, or Bulletin Board Systems -- which are run on private computers, and which are networked together using terminal software via local, direct telephone dial-up connections.

Today, FidoNet BBSes -- and BBSes in general -- are likewise accessible over the Internet via the telnet protocol. Such BBSes utilize port 23, which is the standard telnet port. This was the case with the Armageddon BBS, until I finally took it offline in July of 2011 due to low traffic and other technical reasons.

In other words, unlike today where the vast majority of us must rely upon an ISP -- Internet Service Provider -- or at least a LAN -- Local Area Network -- connection, in order to connect to the Internet, there was no need for a middle man back then, because the original FidoNet networks were run by SysOps -- or System Operators -- who all generally lived in the same city, town or general area. Connecting to another computer in the network was simply a matter of making a local telephone call -- via modem -- to a particular BBS. Upon connecting to such a system, one could then obtain a list of other local BBSes -- or nodes -- which formed a part of that particular BBS network. Being as these were usually local calls, there was no charge involved. In fact, in the beginning, most -- if not all -- BBSes were run for free by people who were dedicated to the hobby. How different from today where everything revolves around money and profit.

As the acronym "BBS" implies, the primary purpose of a BBS was to serve as a bulletin board, or message board, for the users of the system, as well as for the other members of the entire local network, via the exchange of message packets by the SysOps. File-sharing also became an integral part of the local BBS environment. While files were for the most part free, many SysOps eventually found it necessary to implement upload/download quotas in order to maintain a fresh stock of interesting files for their BBS members. Sadly, even back then, file leeches -- people who download a lot of files, but who rarely upload anything in return -- were a problem.

Originally, FidoNet -- which was but one of such networks -- was confined to the United States of America and Canada. As more local BBS networks joined FidoNet, it became necessary to form various "stars" -- or hubs -- that served as message relay stations between the various BBS networks which formed a part of the overall FidoNet network. As I recall, there were three such "stars" in the continental USA. If memory serves me correctly, these three "stars" were located in Texas, Pennsylvania and possibly California or Washington State.

The people who administrated these hubs also worked together to set the various policies which governed overall FidoNet operations. There was a lot of politicking going on, and on occasions there were problems. Some FidoNet message echoes were also dominated by dictatorial, tyrannical types, who at times acted like little "gods", and their word was law. If a BBS visitor dared to challenge an echo moderator's word, or worse yet, argued with them in public -- which was a serious taboo within FidoNet -- it could easily lead to that user's temporary, or even permanent, expulsion from participation in that particular message conference; and it still happens on occasion today, although with less frequency, being as FidoNet is now only a shadow of its former self with a lot fewer BBS participants.

One thing is for certain; the FidoNet message conferences -- or echoes as they were known -- were dedicated to a variety of topics and interests. Thus, they served as a springboard for sharing quite a diversity of viewpoints. Whether it was technocrats discussing the latest developments in computer technology, or people interested in politics who were engaged in debating the latest issues from a variety of political perspectives, or young kids who were thoroughly absorbed in the latest networked RPG's -- role-playing games -- or like me, religious people who wanted to share their faith with the world, or scientists and academia exchanging views on the latest speculations and theories, or people talking about their pets or hobbies, within the BBS world, it seems that everyone was represented to one degree or another.

Once it became physically possible to exchange message data packets via the Internet -- and thus cut down on the cost of long distance phone calls between FidoNet hubs and adjoining networks -- FidoNet grew even more, and began to expand to other countries. As a result, it became necessary to divide the online world into different zones, each one of which had their coordinators, North America being Zone 1. Back during its heyday, from about the late eighties to the mid nineties, FidoNet was comprised of literally thousands of BBSes around the world. I suppose that an exact number will really never be known, being as BBSes were coming and going all the time, and it was rather difficult to keep the nodelists up-to-date in a realistic manner. I have no idea how many active BBSes continue to exist today, but I am sure that they are not nearly as many as twenty years ago.

Back during the mid to late nineties, while the rising star of the Internet offered new growth opportunities for BBSing and networks like FidoNet, it also signaled FidoNet's slow decline from popularity, and in fact, its eventual demise, due to the simple reason that FidoNet simply could not keep up with the increasingly sophisticated -- and attractive -- technologies which were being developed specifically for the Internet. Whereas BBSes have been limited to message boards, online chat, XYZ modem file transfers, and sub-standard ANSI graphics -- although us old-time BBSers still think that the graphics we used were cool at the time, particularly those which were animated -- the Internet hasn't faced these kinds of limitations.

In addition to providing all of the above -- except for the PC-ANSI graphics -- the high-speed Internet today offers us live or pre-recorded streaming audio and video in the form of news, sports, special events, video conferencing, Internet TV and radio, worldwide web-cams, music, movie trailers and many other forms of entertainment. For added special effects and interactivity, webmasters also offer us Shockwave and Flash movies, Java applets, CGI scripts, as well as a host of other plug-in technologies which further enhance one's Internet experience. Then, of course, there are social networks such as Facebook, Google+, MySpace, Twitter, Tumblr, etc.

Clearly, the volume of information the Internet provides, -- whether the information happens to be factual, propaganda or fantasy -- and the speed with which it delivers the data to us, can't possibly be compared to the archaic FidoNet network by any means. Whether we are looking for knowledge, or merely entertainment, the Internet offers each online user instant gratification -- a luxury which was not afforded to BBSers. The Internet is an exotic -- and dangerous-- electronic world full of motion, sounds and colors which immediately flood our human senses; and it is a cyberworld where one can be whoever he wishes to be regardless of the reality that surrounds him. Sadly, a lot of Internet content does nothing to contribute to the betterment of society because it fails to embrace high moral standards; and as I noted earlier, a large part of it now revolves around making a profit, and nothing more.

. . . It was through [one of the jobs that I held back then ] that I was introduced to my first computer: a Macintosh Classic. That was in 1990. By today's standards, the Classic is a very ancient machine; and nowadays, most people just throw them away, or give them away for spare parts. Back then though, having a black and white nine inch monitor with a CPU speeding along at about fourteen megahertz as I recall, was something to behold; and need I tell you about our "super-fast" 1200 baud modems of the time? Well, by early 1993, I was finally able to buy my very first computer: a Macintosh LC III. This came with a fourteen inch, 256-color monitor, a 25 MHz CPU, 4 megabytes of RAM, and a 160 megabyte hard drive. I even purchased a black and white laser printer to go along with it. Boy was I moving up in the world. Yes, I know. I can hear some of you chuckling from here, as you work on your 3 GHZ machine with a 27" monitor, 8 GB of RAM and a 2 TB hard drive.

It was towards the end of that same year that I first heard about BBSing; and before long, I managed to borrow an Apple modem from a friend of mine. For those of you who complain about the slow speed of today's dial-up connections, imagine if you can, moving along at 300 to 1200 baud with an Apple modem. Of course, at the time, it didn't seem slow, because we had nothing faster with which to compare it; and just being online was a wonder in itself. Eventually, I acquired a 2400 baud modem as a trade-off for a desktop Christmas lights program at a local Macintosh Users Group meeting. It didn't even come with a modem cable, but I was happy. Later, I moved on to a 14.4 modem, followed by a 56K modem. As fast as that seemed at the time, it obviously could not compare to the DSL line that we later acquired, which was followed by the 15 Megabit cable modem connection that we have today.

At the time, I had no idea that I could actually operate my own BBS, so I was happy with just posting messages on the local boards . . . It was during early 1994, after having gotten my feet wet in the BBS world, that I finally bought the Hermes BBS software package, and started my own board, which eventually became known as "The Treasure Trove BBS", or "TTT BBS" . . .

Before long, I joined a local Christian BBS network, the name of which I can no longer remember. It was through that BBS network that I also became familiar with FidoNet; and eventually, I began my own FidoNet message conference.

During the same time that all of these events were occurring in my own life, the Internet was also growing and gaining in popularity; and as I mentioned earlier, it was just a matter of time before BBSing and FidoNet would be overshadowed by the same.

. . . [ It was ] in late Spring of 1997, when I finally acquired the financial means to set up my first Christian web page. I had finally broken into the still relatively new frontier of Internet Christian evangelism.

By today's standards, my site was a rather pitiful endeavor. I knew very little about HTML coding in those days; and so, design-wise, the site was not much different from primitive ANSI graphics.

As some of my older friends will already know, in addition to the Endtime Prophecy Net website, for quite a few years, I also operated a small Christian mailing list known as EDGE -- or Endtime Discussion Group Exchange -- and the "Armageddon" file server. The "Armageddon" FTP file server was in effect a modern BBS system which took advantage of a regular GUI -- or Graphical User Interface -- as opposed to the archaic PC-ANSI graphics that were used on my BBS. The "Armageddon" FTP file server offered file downloads -- primarily of a Christian nature -- live chat and newsgroups. It was accessible by both Macintosh and Windows users, simply by using the free [ and now-discontinued ] Hotline client.

----- End quotes -----

You can still currently find the aforementioned article on my website, Hermes II BBS and Hotline server; all of which are accessible at endtimeprophecy.net or 202.128.4.177.

Now if I can just get SheepShaver's networking to work properly so that I can upgrade from 68k software to PPC software. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:53 am 
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I was a member of Armageddon BBS in... 2008 or so. You provided a stripped down version of Public Address which remains on our 68K software collection to the present day:

http://www.emaculation.com/doku.php/68k_software


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:14 am 
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ClockWise wrote:
I was a member of Armageddon BBS in... 2008 or so. You provided a stripped down version of Public Address which remains on our 68K software collection to the present day:

http://www.emaculation.com/doku.php/68k_software


It is very interesting that you should say that, Clockwise, because that is exactly where I found it a few days ago when I scoured the Internet looking for it. I trashed all of my Hermes II BBS, Public Address BBS and Hotline client and server software years ago, because I didn't think that I would ever get back into those things.

However, now that I have set up all three of them again, I really needed my stripped down version of PA so that I can easily create my ANSI screens. So thanks for having a copy of it! :)

In fact, just a few minutes ago, I also downloaded a copy of BBEdit Lite 4.6, because I need it to write stuff for my Hotline server news. SimpleText in Mac OS 7.6.1 just doesn't cut it when I write stuff on the Yosemite side in BBEdit 11.0.3, and then open it under Mac OS 7.6.1.

I wish I had also kept all of my old ANSI screens from the Armageddon BBS. Now I have to take the time to recreate them, which is time consuming.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:22 am 
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Well, I just couldn't help myself. :)

Below is a current image of my Basilisk II, Mac OS 7.6.1, Hermes II, Public Address, Hotline Server set up.

I am using Kaleidoscope with the Aqua III scheme.

Image

Have fun taking a blast into the past, boys and girls, and old geezers and old ladies! :)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:28 am 
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BTW, forget all of those old shooter games.

While I haven't played computer games in many, many years, one of my old favorites which really requires you to think, use strategy, and have a lot of patience, is MacSokoban 3.01 68k.

I was so happy when I finally completed level 50 after a few weeks, that I even made a little movie showing the final moves in level 50. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:23 pm 
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Thanks for bringing back to life a bit of my past :D I never realized that the Hotline Armageddon BBS and the FidoNet Hermes Treasure Trove BBS were one and the same. I was only ever on the HL one as a lurking guest from time to time though.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:08 pm 
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adespoton wrote:
Thanks for bringing back to life a bit of my past :D I never realized that the Hotline Armageddon BBS and the FidoNet Hermes Treasure Trove BBS were one and the same. I was only ever on the HL one as a lurking guest from time to time though.


Actually, my friend, you seem a little confused. :mrgreen:

While I ran -- and am again running -- both of them, they are two separate things.

The "Treasure Trove BBS" was my Hermes II BBS, which I also ran for a time using the Public Address BBS software. Public Address was actually a lot better, in my view, because it was modular in architecture, and thus the would-be SysOp could design the entire BBS the way he wanted to by linking different modules together. In Contrast, Hermes II has always been very rigid. It is a straight line from log on to the Main Menu. With PA, you could do all kinds of things.

I later renamed the "Treasure Trove BBS" to the "Armageddon BBS".

On the other hand, the "Armageddon FREE Files Server" was my Hotline server, which for a time I also ran with the FreeShare client and server. FreeShare was my personal fork of the Gloarbline client and server. I made a number of graphical improvements to the various preference panes, and I also created a bunch of new user icons for it as well. I promoted the FreeShare client and server via my "WunderWerkz Software" website. I used to have my stuff on VersionTracker, Tucows and Softpedia.

I was also involved in the KDX community for a time, and I made quite a few icon sets and theme sets for that BBS software as well, which I likewise offered on my "WunderWerkz Software" website.

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