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€-Sign for System-7

Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:04 pm

Dear System-7 aficionados,

Could you provide me with a hint, how to incorporate the €-Sign with System-7?

I started experimenting with ResEdit, looked promising, but changes were all gone after reboot.
Maybe a user mistake from my side or simply a smart system.

Did someone already amend or add the €-Sign to one or several system fonts with success and what steps/tools are necessary?

Happy haackin'

Knuddlmac. J

Re: €-Sign for System-7

Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:32 pm

I did this back in the day using both ResEdit and Fontographer. I believe I replaced the Lira symbol with the Euro symbol in Geneva and Times New Roman.

If you're changing it in the bitmapped fonts, you have to change it for each font size, as fonts get downsampled for off-screen purposes. If you're editing the TrueType font, you just need to change the glyph.

Oh, and you'll be dealing with the fonts in the Fonts folder and possibly others in the System suitcase itself.

Re: €-Sign for System-7

Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:08 am

adespoton wrote:I did this back in the day using both ResEdit and Fontographer. I believe I replaced the Lira symbol with the Euro symbol in Geneva and Times New Roman.


Great, so it is possible! :smile:

adespoton wrote:If you're changing it in the bitmapped fonts, you have to change it for each font size, as fonts get downsampled for off-screen purposes. If you're editing the TrueType font, you just need to change the glyph.


Cool, looks like this will be a diligent Sunday for my keyboard & mouse.

adespoton wrote:Oh, and you'll be dealing with the fonts in the Fonts folder and possibly others in the System suitcase itself.


Am I right assuming, that amended font-sets later also work on a PostScript Laser printer?

Buon weekend & thanks for your response!

Re: €-Sign for System-7

Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:04 am

KnuddlMac wrote:Am I right assuming, that amended font-sets later also work on a PostScript Laser printer?


Bitmapped fonts will not scale on a PostScript printer; they'll look blocky. TrueType should be converted during the page compilation process to a postscript file the printer can understand.

Native postscript fonts will require Adobe Font Manager, a bitmapped copy of the font, and a .ps copy of the font (postscript font description) -- I think Fontographer can build postscript fonts too, but I've never tried. TrueType are just much cleaner and have OS support as well as printer support.

Re: €-Sign for System-7

Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:24 am

PostScript is actually native to Fontographer. The font outlines are described in a different way for TrueType (more points required for curves) which Fontographer does by means of conversion at the time of font generation. That conversion process got improved after Fontlab took over Fontographer from Macromedia. But outline-wise fonts made with Fontographer are still "cleaner" if generated as PostScript fonts.

Both, TrueType and PostScript, are native to FontLab (which is also the name of Fontlab's "pro" font software). But if you just need to add one glyph to a font I recommend using DTL OT Master. It will just add that one glyph but leaves everything else intact (including hinting, which determines how a TrueType font is drawn on the screen and is lost when using Fontographer to decode a font).

Re: €-Sign for System-7

Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:43 am

Thanks to your great support, I could overwrite the pound character with a € symbol.
I was lucky to find the tool you mentioned, in the big garden. J

Just Chicago 12 seems to be more buried in the system, I could not overwrite the symbol.

Do you know by chance this is because System 7 makes heavy use of Chicago 12, so it is kind of hard coded somewhere deeper ?

Re: €-Sign for System-7

Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:10 pm

Geneva 9 and Chicago 12 are stored directly in the System file as they're required for the OS to function. You can pull them out with ResEdit.

However, I'd recommend replacing the Lira symbol instead of the pound character, as Liras aren't coming back any time soon, but pounds have never gone away.

That said: at what point are you going to need the euro symbol in Chicago? It's a screen header font, not a text body font. The only place I can see it being used is dialog headers, but those would mostly be for software that existed before the euro anyway.

Re: €-Sign for System-7

Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:36 am

Thanks for the hint about using ResEdit, for that purpose!
Can I edit fonts in a live system or do I have to mount a separate System 7 for editing system fonts?

You are right: Apart from an event where my program menu would require a €-symbol, there is really no need for a €-symbol with Chicago.
I just wanted to get it right, w/o any limitation. Here I have to add, that I doubt using my old Symantec C Compiler to torcher the World with my financial application. :lol:

About the Lira symbol: I wasn't able to find one, using Key Cabs.
Shift + option + 4 yields in a Pound sign. But this might be due to my keyboard layout?

Sure the Pound remains valid and becomes even more financially present next to the Euro after the Brexit, I'd guess.

At this point, thanks to all smart people here in the forum, providing me with 1st class support!
I wasn't expecting such a vital community around System 7 and my beloved little Mac cubes.

Re: €-Sign for System-7

Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:11 pm

It's technically possible to use ResEdit on a live system, I'd strongly recommend against it; better to work on a copy of the System file and swap them out when ready.

I used to stick FKeys, DAs, sounds and various other System resources in font files and load them in the Fonts folder, because the System 7 Fonts folder is really just an extension of the System resource file that has extra logic to safely load and unload the resources. You can even replace DITLs and DLOGs in font suitcases and drop them in the Font folder and they'll replace the built-in ones. But Chicago 12 and Geneva 9 have hard-coded logic to default to the ones stored in the actual System file.

Re: €-Sign for System-7

Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:16 am

Thank you for sharing this detail, so I won't spend any time fiddling around with Chicago 12 and Geneva 9 as they're anchored too deep in the system.

I wasn't aware that the Fonts folder has such capabilities. Just pulled my old ResEdit books out of the loft, as you got me exited!

Re: €-Sign for System-7

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:12 am

I recommend you replace the currency sign ¤. It is #219 in the Mac font table.

You can probably find a copy of Fontographer in Macintosh Garden.
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