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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:44 am 
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Space Cadet

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I just bought some vintage Mac games on CD-ROM. Windows can't read anything on them, but Windows Media Player can play their audio tracks just fine.

First, what should I use to make an ISO (or whatever the appropriate equivalent is) of these games? I tried using CloneCD trial, but either it didn't back something up right, or I'm not loading them in Basilisk II right.

I did try the 2015 build listed here:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5282

...but if I have it set to mount my actual CD-ROM drive, then BasiliskII will shut down with a SIGSEGV. The only way I've gotten it to see the content of CDs is by mounting the CloneCD ccd file in Daemon Tools, and setting BasiliskII to use the virtual drive. When I do this, I can see the CD-ROM icon on the desktop, but trying to run anything from it freezes up BasiliskII.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:14 am 
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ISO is fine for Mac game CDs.
I was using IMGBurn in various Windows flavors and the app creates perfect images of Mac HFS CDs.
If ISO is not possible because of the mixed mode nature of the source CD, IMGBurn will offer to create a bin/cue image instead.
Though bin/cue is fine for archiving its useless for Basilisk II.
ISO images on the other hand may be mounted via the Volumes tab in the BII GUI or the may be copied to a BII volume to be mounted there with http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/virtual ... cd-utility

As Windows does play some files off the CDs in question they are likely mixed mode.
In that case emulators may not be able to play them. I got a Mozart CD which is unplayable in BII/SS too.
http://macintoshgarden.org/games/mozart ... in-c-major
The HFS partition is working with emulators, but thats not how the CD was meant to be used.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:39 am 
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Space Cadet

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These are mixed-mode CDs. Windows can't read any files from them, but Windows Media Player can play music off them. Are any emulators capable of reading mixed-mode CDs? Even if I have to use Daemon Tools?

Either way, I still want to know how to back them up. Imgburn is failing for some of these. On one game, it got stuck on "Analysing Tracks... (Session 1, Track 2)" forever. The disc doesn't appear damaged at all. I don't know what the disk format is. Do all Mac CD games use HFS?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:58 pm 
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Space Cadet

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Partial success!

I got one of the games backed up with a trial of Anyburn (Imgburn failed in the manner described above). I mounted it with Daemon Tools, and launched BII. It worked, sort of, but runs much too fast. But I do hear music while playing, so apparently bin/cue can work! Also curiously, if I play in 256 colors or in monochrome (as the game recommends), it runs unbearably slow.

The other games aren't getting this far. The one I got backed up with Imgburn, when mounted in Daemon Tools, makes BII prompt me to initialize an unreadable disk. And the third game has resisted being backed up with everything I've tried except CloneCD trial, and I can mount it with Daemon Tools, but it just crashes BII when I try to run anything from the disc.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:42 pm 
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Hmmm... this is strange. Success maybe achieved with one of the games, some mystery remains.

In BII, I copied the contents of a CD-ROM to a new volume, about 35MB. This would not, as far as I know, copy over any of the music tracks. The game still ran too fast in BII.

Then I loaded up MinivMac instead, and loaded the volume from BII. The game works, at the right speed, with music! So I am guessing that the game doesn't actually use the audio portion of the CD, and that it's just there so that you can play the music in your CD player.

Still got a game that I can't mount, and another game that I can't play (the same technique did not work for this one).

So another question - is there a way I can make an IMG file out of a CD-ROM, from within BasiliskII? MinivMac can't read ISO files externally, but if I can make one from within BasiliskII and put it on a new volume, in the right format, I might be able to mount it internally in MinivMac using Disk Copy.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:31 pm 
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You may want to try the Virtual CD/DVD-ROM Utility: http://www.emaculation.com/basilisk/Vir ... v1.0d0.sit

It will run on MacOS inside BasiliskII (or SheepShaver) and I suppose inside mini vMac as well. It can create and save a new disk image from a mounted volume (CD-ROM or image made from a CD-ROM) and again mount that new image as if it is the real original physical CD.


Last edited by Ronald P. Regensburg on Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:29 pm 
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If all else fails, ISOBuster will probably work – but unfortunately, you'll need to register it to read from the HFS filesystem.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:55 pm 
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If you're running Windows 10, it includes an entire Linux toolset under the hood; shouldn't dd work?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:28 pm 
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Space Cadet

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The Virtual CD-ROM utility did the trick for one of the games.

I'm still having a problem with one game. Imgburn backs it up to a bin/cue, but when I mount it in Daemon Tools (to the drive mounted in BII), BII prompts me to initialize or eject the disk. When I choose eject, Daemon Tools dismounts it.

The jewel case says it says it requires a Mac Plus, SE, or II, and an Apple CD-SC CD-ROM drive. I don't know if BII emulates something that isn't compatible with this? Or maybe I'm not backing up the disc correctly?

I'm running Windows 7, not 10.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:46 pm 
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Seems to me that the image format is wrong for BasiliskII. You would want to create an .iso file from the CD.

Earlier in this thread 24bit wrote:
Quote:
ISO is fine for Mac game CDs.
I was using IMGBurn in various Windows flavors and the app creates perfect images of Mac HFS CDs.
If ISO is not possible because of the mixed mode nature of the source CD, IMGBurn will offer to create a bin/cue image instead.
Though bin/cue is fine for archiving its useless for Basilisk II.


Last edited by Ronald P. Regensburg on Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:19 pm 
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I figured BII wouldn't care what the image format is, because I'm mounting it in Daemon Tools, not mounting it directly in BII. Other games were at least readable this way, if not playable. But how can I make an ISO? It's a mixed mode disc, and Imgburn wants to make a bin/cue.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:51 pm 
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It's all about what you present to the emulator. So if you create a bin/cue and mount that in Daemon Tools, BII will see it as a real mixed mode CD. In order to load it as a BII virtual device, it needs to be in ISO format, which will strip the red book audio tracks.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:03 pm 
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That's what I figured. But BII isn't seeing my mounted image as anything valid, because it's asking me to initialize or eject the disc. And I still don't know how to make an ISO for BII to load directly.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:42 pm 
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Which version of MacOS are you running in BII?

I understand that there's a bootable MacOS image going around that only contains a rather minimal MacOS installation and may be lacking the appropriate drivers for CD-ROM access.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:58 am 
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The type of your source CD-ROM does determine what can be done.
Plain HFS Mac CDs may be used to create an ISO file with IMGBurn or another application capable of making CD images. The resulting ISO can be used with Basilisk II or SheepShaver.
Hybrid PC/Mac CD-ROMs can be processed the same way, alas the emulators will only mount the first partition of the image. Its pure luck wether the HFS part is on the first partition to play the game.
Mixed-Mode CD-ROMs are not usable as master for ISO. You can make bin/cue images from them for archiving though.
Someone with an old Mac can burn the bin/cue to CD, insert it in the Mac and can create a disk image (IMG) of the HFS partition.
Such HFS partition will work with emulators, but the audio part is missing of course.

Thats what I gathered from imaging my own Mac CDs.
We have to face that some Mac CD images can not be used in Basilisk II or SheepShaver due to the CDs structure.
A lot of other Mac CDs are unplayable because the emulator is missing some features - mainly GPU emulation.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:06 pm 
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Since he already has the disc mounted and just needs to be able to read it, maybe Installing Mt. Anything or a similar extension is all that's needed. After all, he has other mixed mode CDs working. My guess is that there's something different about this one.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:32 pm 
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24bit wrote:
TWe have to face that some Mac CD images can not be used in Basilisk II or SheepShaver due to the CDs structure.
But it still ought to be possible to use such images with Daemon Tools, and then mount the virtual Daemon Tools drive in the emulator.


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