Moderators: Cat_7, Ronald P. Regensburg
I moved the topic to this forum.adespoton wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:31 pmAlso, this should probably not be in the 68k area of the forums.
MAME provides some pre-installed System 6 and System 7 images on this wiki page.
The hardware descriptions work, NUBUS works, PPC emulation works. So I think 7.1.2+ should mostly work now? But there may not be driver support for some components, and there could be chips that aren't properly emulated. You should be able to run with 68k drivers though, even though that'd be slower -- so ADB input devices should be fine, memory management should mostly work, and you might even get the basic monitors and networking to function. Audio's going to be either not there, or really choppy.almeath wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2025 5:10 am I saw the announcement of a “breakthrough” in emulation of the NUBUS PowerMac models, which is exciting, but I’m not sure what that’s specifically referring to. Does “not working” mean it won’t do much other than boot to the desktop at this stage? Would a hybrid System folder still be necessary? I think 7.1.2 was the first version of the MacOS to include PowerPC system enablers.
The MAME source code on github should have the info.almeath wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2025 8:00 am I am not sure what specific ROM I need and Ample does not have the machine listed, so I do not know the launch parameter either.
If I know the name of the required ROM set and the correct machine description for the command line, I should be OK from there.
Code: Select all
ROM_START( pmac6100 )
ROM_REGION64_BE(0x400000, "bootrom", 0)
ROM_LOAD( "9feb69b3.rom", 0x000000, 0x400000, CRC(a43fadbc) SHA1(6fac1c4e920a077c077b03902fef9199d5e8f2c3) )
ROM_END
} // anonymous namespace
COMP( 1994, pmac6100, 0, 0, macpdm, macpdm, macpdm_state, driver_init, "Apple Computer", "Power Macintosh 6100/60", MACHINE_NOT_WORKING )
This is curious to me, as it indicates MAME 6100 emulation is just about in the same place today that it was in DingusPPC a year ago. I wonder if it's bumping up against similar issues with similar fixes?almeath wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2025 5:15 pm Thanks, I have located the ROM and was able to successfully get to a very crackly boot chime, and only when specifying 8MB of RAM. Any other RAM values cause errors along the lines of "Fatal error: unmap_generic: In range 1000000-ffffff mirror 3000000, start address is after the end address".
I could not boot using the Legacy Recovery CD - I just get the floppy icon with a question mark. Also, pressing the key combination to get to the MAME settings menus does not appear to work, or it works so slowly that the menu is essentially unusable and I need to control-alt-delete to quit MAME via the Task Manager.
I tried booting directly off pre-installed hard drive images with System 7.1.2, 7.6.1 and 8.1, but all give me the error that the startup disk will not work on this Macintosh.
I then attempted to boot off a CD image of the System 7.5 CD specifically for the PowerMac 6100/60, which just gives me the floppy icon with the flashing question mark.
Lastly, I tried constructing a hybrid System Folder as mentioned above, copying a 7.6.1 System Suitcase into a 7.1.2 System Folder, but that also resulted in an error that the startup disk will not work on this Macintosh.
I've exhausted all ideas for now. Obviously this is just for the purposes of tinkering and experimentation, as I have no expectations of success until more work is completed on the core emulation.
From the hash list, I see:almeath wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 3:56 pm I made a typo above, but nevertheless I get the same Error Type 11 when booting off either the CD image or hard drive install from both the 7.1.2 and 7.5 CDs for the Power Macintosh 6100/7100/8100 series. I also tried three different versions of the 7.5 CD.
I briefly see "Welcome to Power Macintosh" so I do not think I am missing any crucial files to emulate the machine, or I would not get past the launch command.
This is my launch command:
D:\MAME\mame.exe pmac6100 -ramsize 8M -rompath D:\MAME\roms -nvram_directory D:\MAME\nvram -hard1 D:\MAME\drives\pmac6100.hda -cdrom D:\MAME\media\pm7.1.2.iso
Note: The above launch command results in the Error Type 11 even if I use a blank HD image, or even no HD image specified - so direct boot from the CD fails with the exact same error.
The error seems to be the exact same one reported in the original post above. Also, I tried using a more recent build of MAME 0.273 from 5 January with the same results.
Have you found the disc image with that SHA1 hash? It's for 7.1.2P, which is different from 7.1.2. While I'd expect the CD that came with the 6100 to work, it's not the one that was tested by RB.<software name="pwrmaccd">
<description>Power Macintosh 6100/7100/8100 CD (System Software 7.1.2P) (US English)</description>
<year>1994</year>
<publisher>Apple</publisher>
<info name="usage" value="Runs on most 68040s and NuBus Power Macs" />
<sharedfeat name="compatibility" value="MC68040,PPC601" />
<part name="cdrom1" interface="cdrom">
<diskarea name="cdrom">
<disk name="pwrmaccd" sha1="8fd11f42298af430a4b7e3b056336f2e6eec5ce2"/>
</diskarea>
</part>
</software>
IIRC, the SCSI driver on the 7.1.2P CD was in 68040, so that it could boot on 040 Macs as well as PPC Macs. The SCSI driver on the PPC 7.1.2 CD was at least partially in PPC I believe; it's possible it is probing something that isn't yet handled in the MAME PPC SCSI emulation, or it could be a memory addressing issue.A Type 11 error means an illegal interrupt vector on a 680x0 machine. On a Power Macintosh, a Type 11 error is any exception in native code not handled by one of the installed exception handlers. On a Power Macintosh, a Type 11 error can be almost any error that occurred in native code. Type 11 errors may include
an address error
a bus error
an illegal instruction error that occurred in native code.
The exception handlers installed for native code don't correctly handle the particular condition which was raised, and the error is returned back to the System Error manager via the Mixed Mode manager. The System Error manager maps all such exceptions to the system error Type 11 Error.
If you install Macsbug 6.5.2 or later, some Type 11 errors may be reported as a PowerPC unmapped memory exception. This is equivalent to a bus error, i.e., an error indicating your program is accessing memory that doesn't exist.
The Modern Memory Manager was designed to be less forgiving than the classic (68K) Memory Manager. Disposing of something twice, disposing of memory that was never allocated, and other memory handling problems will often generate a Type 11 error, while on a 68K machine the problem may go unnoticed.
When you find a 7.1.2P CD, run the sha1sum command line tool over it and compare the resulting value to the one I listed; if it's a match, the CD should work. Sounds like so far, you've tried PPC CDs that have a SCSI driver that doesn't work (yet) and a Performa CD that's 68k only. What you need is the CD that installs on 68040 and PPC Macs, with the sha1sum listed above.almeath wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2025 3:54 am Are you referring to the one labelled as "System 7.1.2P (Performa 630CD, 635CD, 638CD) (CD)" on the Macintosh Repository?
If so, I tried booting off this one and got the message: "This startup disk will not work on this Macintosh model. Use the latest Installer to update this disk for this model. (System 7.1 does not work on this model; you need a newer version that does)"
The only other 7.1.2 CD I can find is "System 7.1.2 (LC, Quadra 630) (CD)". That one fails too. Exact same error as above.
I have gone through three different 7.1.2 CDs, one of which is specifically for the PowerMacs, so I appear to be out of options for now. I do not know how to go about finding "pwrmaccd" in the MAME software list library, if it in fact differs from the three images I have tried. I only know of how to obtain images from the Macintosh Repository, Macintosh Garden, or Internet Archive.
Code: Select all
mkdir -p ~/Disks
hdiutil create -size 1g -layout "UNIVERSAL HD" -fs HFS -volname "System7.1.2" ~/Disks/System7.1.2.dmg
# Fix Driver Descriptor Map.
for thediskimg in \
"~/Disks/System7.1.2.dmg" \
; do
echo "$thediskimg"
dd if="$thediskimg" bs=1 skip=0x10 count=34 2> /dev/null | xxd -p -c 34
xxd -p -r <<< '0004 0000 0040 0017 0001 0000 0078 0024 ffff 0000 00b0 0015 0701 0000 00e8 0022 f8ff' | \
dd if=/dev/stdin of="$thediskimg" oseek=0x10 bs=1 conv=notrunc 2> /dev/null
dd if="$thediskimg" bs=1 skip=0x10 count=34 2> /dev/null | xxd -p -c 34
done
Thanks for this information. I have access to a Mac running Mojave, so I will try creating a DMG image formatted to HFS+ and see if that works. I know Mojave is a lot more recent than Leopard, but perhaps it will work.joevt wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2025 7:09 am I use Leopard 10.5.8 in a virtual machine to create disk images: