SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

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sykogee
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SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by sykogee »

Hi,
I hope someone can help, im trying to set it up on Intel MacOS Sonoma 14.3, but after a few days im not having much luck.
After following the guide, downloading the the SheepShaver folder, latest application, keycodes and scripts. I then downloaded the newworld.rom from Redundant Robot and renamed the file as per the guide.

Ive copied all files into the sheepshaver directory on a separate partition, on opening Sheepshaver it opens for a few seconds and then closes.
I havent made any changes to the prefs file as yet.

After searching I read about memory settings could possibly be causing the issue or also the rom file is not being recognised, but Im not sure how to prove what is causing it not to open.

Thanks in advance
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

There are two possible causes I can think of.

1. Is your ROM file named exactly "Mac OS ROM"? If you renamed the file in the Finder, the file name extension may be hidden and not removed. You can check and correct this in Finder Info panel for the file: Select the file and hit command-I

2. You may have been bitten by a security feature in macOS.
Try:
- Copy the SheepShaver application (only the app itself) from the SheepShaver folder to a different location
- Trash the original app
- Move the copy back to where the original was

Exactly what/where is that "separate partition"? With the multitude of hidden partitions, volumes, and containers on the internal disk with modern macOS, I would be hesitant to create yet another partition there.
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by sykogee »

Hi, thanks for your reply

Ive renamed the file via the Get Info and removed the extension
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AoWYs4okYWqng7Bg7gr ... g?e=akTMFI

I have also done as you suggested copy the application out and deleted the version in the Sheepshaver folder, then copied the file back , bit it still opens for a few seconds and then closes

I originally created a second partitition called data, to store my user profile and other bits on including Basilisk II and Sheepshaver
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AoWYs4okYWqng7BhW0a ... w?e=Yoecoi

Im a bit confused what could be causing the issue, Ive tried with Basilisk II and I have a System 7.5.5 VM created and working, but really struggling with SheepShaver on Sonoma

Thanks
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Not sure why you created that partition and not sure what you mean with "user profile". Is this on an external drive?

As SheepShaver has not run so far, its prefs file will either not be created yet or it will only contain some default entries.

Still, maybe you can show us its contents. I understand you downloaded the latest SheepShaver script folder. You will find there a script "Edit prefs file". When you run that script, the prefs file will open in your default text editor. Select all content and paste it here in your reply.
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by sykogee »

I just like to to keep the OS and Applications on one partition and my user profile (documents, photos, downloads, SheepShaver etc) on another partition, it is on the same internal SSD as MacOS. So if I need to format and reinstall the OS, my files are still on the second parititon

The SheepShaver prefs file - this is the contents:

extfs /
windowmodes 0
screenmodes 0
seriala /dev/cu.Bluetooth-Incoming-Port
serialb /dev/null
bootdrive 0
bootdriver 0
ramsize 16777216
frameskip 8
gfxaccel true
nocdrom false
nonet false
nosound false
nogui false
noclipconversion false
ignoresegv true
ignoreillegal true
jit true
jit68k false
keyboardtype 5
hardcursor false
hotkey 0
scale_nearest false
scale_integer false
cpuclock 0
yearofs 0
dayofs 0
mag_rate 0
swap_opt_cmd false
sound_buffer 0
name_encoding 0
keycodes false
mousewheelmode 1
mousewheellines 3
dsp /dev/dsp
mixer /dev/mixer
idlewait true
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

That is the prefs file that SheepShaver normally creates when it is first launched. and not yet configured.

The only thing I can imagine is that something is wrong with the rom file.
Try:Trash this file, download "newworld86.rom.zip" again from Redundant Robot, unzip it, rename it, and then drag it into the SheepShaver folder.
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by adespoton »

One other thing to try is to open terminal.app
> cd <path to your SheepShaver folder>
> ./SheepShaver.app/Contents/MacOS/SheepShaver

And then check for debug output, which should tell you why it's quitting.
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by sykogee »

Thanks both

I tried downloading the ROM file again, unzipping, renaming and moving to the SheepShaver folder, but alas it still didnt load.

However running from the terminal I got the following error

./SheepShaver
SheepShaver V2.5 by Christian Bauer and Mar"c" Hellwig
2024-02-20 19:40:37.451 SheepShaver[1393:27303] WARNING: Secure coding is automatically enabled for restorable state! However, not on all supported macOS versions of this application. Opt-in to secure coding explicitly by implementing NSApplicationDelegate.applicationSupportsSecureRestorableState:.
Using prefs file at /Volumes/Data/sykogee/.sheepshaver_prefs
ERROR: Cannot map usable RAM area. Try to decrease the MacOS RAM size.

Does the error mean it cant access the RAM?
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

The reported memory error probably points to the cause. The RAM setting cannot be the problem, as it is set to the very low default value (16 MB). The problem could be that SheepShaver is trying to use memory that is already in use by other processes. This is a known problem caused by the way SheepShaver insists on using fixed places in memory and does not look for unused memory. It more often happens on other host platforms (Linux, Windows) but it sometimes also happens in macOS.

Restart your host Mac and start SheepShaver without first launching other applications.
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by adespoton »

sykogee wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:43 pm Thanks both

I tried downloading the ROM file again, unzipping, renaming and moving to the SheepShaver folder, but alas it still didnt load.

However running from the terminal I got the following error

./SheepShaver
SheepShaver V2.5 by Christian Bauer and Mar"c" Hellwig
2024-02-20 19:40:37.451 SheepShaver[1393:27303] WARNING: Secure coding is automatically enabled for restorable state! However, not on all supported macOS versions of this application. Opt-in to secure coding explicitly by implementing NSApplicationDelegate.applicationSupportsSecureRestorableState:.
Using prefs file at /Volumes/Data/sykogee/.sheepshaver_prefs
ERROR: Cannot map usable RAM area. Try to decrease the MacOS RAM size.

Does the error mean it cant access the RAM?
It means you don't have a contiguous block of RAM available on your host system large enough to stick 16777216 bytes of RAM in.
Try rebooting your host system and starting up SheepShaver immediately; failing that, try lowering the amount of RAM you're assigning.

SheepShaver requires a contiguous block of addressible RAM to claim when it starts up. If your RAM is fragmented by other apps and background processes, it will fail exactly how it has for you.
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by sykogee »

So still no joy, I have rebooted several times, and shut it down just for good measure. Still it refuses to run.
I have also disabled the few startup apps and lowered the Sheepshaver RAM to 8Mb in the prefs file, but it still only opening and then closing.

Its an 8Gb Intel MacBook Pro, I struggle to believe that there can't be 8Mb contiguous block available for it to use, I guess I'm out of luck, unless there is anything else I could try?

Thanks
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

SheepShaver not only needs a contiguous block of addressable RAM, it will only use specific addresses. If anything occupies part of that, even when it uses only little memory, SheepShaver will not run. The size of the RAM setting cannot be the issue, SheepShaver can run with up to 1024 MB RAM.

I am still wondering about the separate partition you use. Do you have your Home folder there? If not, try to copy the SheepShaver folder to your Home folder.
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by sykogee »

Yes I moved my home folder to the other partition, I did create a new user account and left everything in the default locations and settings, then downloaded all sheepshaver files and extracted them to the new user home directory.
Unfortunately still the same issue

I setup Basilisk II as a test and it worked ok, I guess how it access the RAM is different to SheepShaver ?

Im not sure whats going on with my MacBook, I could take the drastic step and reinstall maybe?

If not I'll just have to run my retro Mac on System7.5 :smile:

Thanks for your help with this
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

One would expect BasiliskII and SheepShaver to use memory in a similar way, but I really do not know. I recall reports of the "cannot map RAM" issue only with SheepShaver, usually on Linux or Windows hosts and rarely on OSX/macOS. Restarting the host usually solves the issue.

Restarting does not solve it for you. Something must prevent SheepShaver from accessing the memory it wants to use. I cannot imagine what it could be.

You mean reinstalling macOS? That will not solve anything. With current macOS (I think since macOS 11 Big Sur), your Mac will not boot if even only one bit is wrong. A new macOS installation will be identical. Solving issues by reinstalling the macOS has become mostly obsolete.

In BasiliskII you can run up to MacOS 8.1.

If you want/need to run MacOS 9.x, You could also have a look at QEMU PPC.
Setup: https://www.emaculation.com/doku.php/pp ... mu-for-osx
Forum: viewforum.php?f=34
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by adespoton »

This won't affect macOS, but there was a PR just created based on a different thread for Windows users having a similar issue:
https://github.com/kanjitalk755/macemu/pull/192

Chenchijung changed the order in which things were initialized, and it appears to fix the issue in a specific instance on Windows.

I haven't had a chance to build and test, but logically the change makes sense. We may want to consider something similar for other platforms, although I'm not sure where we'd have to tweak -- macemu/SheepShaver/src/main.cpp maybe?
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Yes, I noticed the posts here and the pull request at kanjitalk755/macemu. It works for a specific situation in Windows. Not sure if it will also work for other configurations. No reply yet from kanjitalk755. I do not know where a similar change could be made for the macOS version.

Of interest is this old discussion: viewtopic.php?t=5722
Changes that were made then were committed to CVS repository (B2 devel list on sourceforge.net) in 2012 moved to github.com/cebix/macemu and a couple of years later forked by kanjitalk755.

@ sykogee
You could try if SheepShaver will run after startup in safe mode. If it runs, the software blocking SheepShaver is not loaded during startup in safe mode.
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by johnrpenner »

adespoton wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2024 6:43 pm One other thing to try is to open terminal.app
> cd <path to your SheepShaver folder>
> ./SheepShaver.app/Contents/MacOS/SheepShaver

And then check for debug output, which should tell you why it's quitting.
im having the same issue on macOS Sonoma 14.1.2 on an Intel Core Xeon (macPro6,1) — when i open SheepShaver, it immediately quits — so i just tried what you suggested about looking for Debugger output:

Death-Star:~ john$ cd /Applications/\ moreApps/SheepShaver\ folder
Death-Star:SheepShaver folder john$ ./SheepShaver.app/Contents/MacOS/SheepShaver
SheepShaver V2.5 by Christian Bauer and Mar"c" Hellwig
2024-02-24 00:52:44.735 SheepShaver[15118:838719] WARNING: Secure coding is automatically enabled for restorable state! However, not on all supported macOS versions of this application. Opt-in to secure coding explicitly by implementing NSApplicationDelegate.applicationSupportsSecureRestorableState:.
Using prefs file at /Users/john/.config/SheepShaver/prefs
ERROR: Cannot map usable RAM area. Try to decrease the MacOS RAM size.
Death-Star:SheepShaver folder john$

when i delete the Prefs file, and try and rerun the app — it recreates the prefs, and then exits with the same result about the 'Cannot map usable RAM area'. 🤷🏼‍♂️
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Yes, it is the same error "sykogee" got, also in macOS 14.x (Sonoma) on Intel.

I wonder if earlier SheepShaver builds behave the same in Sonoma on Intel:

The 1 August 2021 build is interesting because in the next (22 January 2022) build an issue with RAM settings was solved.
Download: https://www.emaculation.com/sheepshaver ... 210801.zip

I wonder if this one can be launched. (Setup is not possible, though, because in this build (and in earlier builds) SheepShaver Settings cannot be accessed in macOS Ventura and later.)
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by johnrpenner »

Ronald P. Regensburg wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 10:10 am Yes, it is the same error "sykogee" got, also in macOS 14.x (Sonoma) on Intel.
I wonder if earlier SheepShaver builds behave the same in Sonoma on Intel:

The 1 August 2021 build is interesting because in the next (22 January 2022) build an issue with RAM settings was solved. Download: https://www.emaculation.com/sheepshaver ... 210801.zip

I wonder if this one can be launched. (Setup is not possible, though, because in this build (and in earlier builds) SheepShaver Settings cannot be accessed in macOS Ventura and later.)
thxu Ronald — i tried the above download: SheepShaver_universal_20210801.zip
Deleted the Prefs, and launched via Terminal — same result:

Death-Star:SheepShaver.app john$ ./Contents/MacOS/SheepShaver
SheepShaver V2.5 by Christian Bauer and Mar"c" Hellwig
ERROR: Cannot map usable RAM area. Try to decrease the MacOS RAM size.
Death-Star:SheepShaver.app john$

same system (macOS 14.1.2 using OCLP (open core legacy patcher) 1.3 to run on macPro6,1
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

johnrpenner wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 4:23 am same system (macOS 14.1.2 using OCLP (open core legacy patcher) 1.3 to run on macPro6,1
We have seen various issues with SheepShaver that only happen on machines that run macOS using OCLP.

@ sykogee
Do you also use OCLP to run Sonoma on your MacBook Pro?
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by PBobbenB »

Hi

I'm having the same issue and I'm currently running Sonoma 14.3.1 with OCLP 1.3.0 on my iMac 12,1.
Have tried the no JIT build posted in another post on this forum and set jit to false but it still does not work.
The error message is slightly different: ERROR: Cannot map RAM: Cannot allocate memory.

I currently have 512mb ram allocated to the MacOS 9.0.4 machine.

Kind regards
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Ronald P. Regensburg
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

Again Sonoma with OCLP. Did an older SheepShaver build run on your machine?

To anyone using Sonoma on an an Intel machine that does not need OCLP: Does SheepShaver run on your machine?
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by PBobbenB »

No, not with Sonoma. I just upgraded from Monterey a couple of days ago.
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by GuiBer »

Ronald P. Regensburg wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 11:54 am Again Sonoma with OCLP. Did an older SheepShaver build run on your machine?

To anyone using Sonoma on an an Intel machine that does not need OCLP: Does SheepShaver run on your machine?
On my iMac 27 Retina 5k 2020 with Sonoma 14.3.1 I never had problems with the latest versions of SheepShaver (Feb 24, Dec 23 and Aug 23).
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Re: SheepShaver on Intel Mac Sonoma 14.3 opens then closes

Post by Ronald P. Regensburg »

This issue is probably related to the use of OCLP

In another topic about what coiuld be the same issue, our member "nandrews" describes the cause: viewtopic.php?p=77440#p77440

"nandrews" also hosts a SheepShaver-noJIT build that can run on OCLP patched machines: http://www.absurdengineering.org/sheepshaver/

Note that JIT needs to disabled in the SheepShaver prefs file:

Code: Select all

jit false
I will add a link to that page with the other SheepShaver downloads.
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