SheepShaver for Windows

About SheepShaver, a PPC Mac emulator for Windows, MacOS X, and Linux that can run System 7.5.3 to MacOS 9.0.4.

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Cat_7
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by Cat_7 »

SheepShaver is a 32 bit application. The problem lies in SheepShaver accessing memory that is in use. Have you tried to start SheepShaver right after a clean boot?
Or stop other programs that you might have running before starting SheepShaver?

I have no idea whether other ryzen users face the same problem.

Best,
Cat_7
chenchijung
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by chenchijung »

Cat_7 wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 8:47 am SheepShaver is a 32 bit application. The problem lies in SheepShaver accessing memory that is in use. Have you tried to start SheepShaver right after a clean boot?
Or stop other programs that you might have running before starting SheepShaver?

I have no idea whether other ryzen users face the same problem.

Best,
Cat_7
Yes. I try to start "SheepShaver for Windows (19-01-2024)" right after windows booting for all 3 ryzen PCs. None of them works.
Then I run "SheepShaver for Windows 2.3-Pre (14.May.2006)", it can work with some minor error message boxes after macos booting.

System memory size should not be an issue, since I have 16G or 32G in these PCs.

I try old release (2015.03.15 and 2010.05.05) and also see this issue.
chenchijung
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by chenchijung »

Try to download source code and build it, and find the allocation memory for MAC system memory fails.
But can not identify why it fails (paramaters seems OK)
So. I did a quick and dirty fix:
move these code (Line329-351 of main_windows.c, for memory allocation of MAC system RAM)
to line 205
(right after this call:
// Read preferences
PrefsInit(NULL, argc, argv);
)
(That is, the memory allocation for MAC system memory move forward to as close as start of main())
Then the memory allocation can success.

It is quite strange. Still do not know the root cause.
chenchijung wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 10:29 am
Cat_7 wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 8:47 am SheepShaver is a 32 bit application. The problem lies in SheepShaver accessing memory that is in use. Have you tried to start SheepShaver right after a clean boot?
Or stop other programs that you might have running before starting SheepShaver?

I have no idea whether other ryzen users face the same problem.

Best,
Cat_7
Yes. I try to start "SheepShaver for Windows (19-01-2024)" right after windows booting for all 3 ryzen PCs. None of them works.
Then I run "SheepShaver for Windows 2.3-Pre (14.May.2006)", it can work with some minor error message boxes after macos booting.

System memory size should not be an issue, since I have 16G or 32G in these PCs.

I try old release (2015.03.15 and 2010.05.05) and also see this issue.
S6Bow
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by S6Bow »

S6Bow wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2023 10:35 pm This is a problem with the normal Windows drive mounting functionality.
When we mount a Windows drive with SheepShaver and access a Windows file, the time stamp of the file advances by about 14 hours.
In addition, the region of MacOS time on SheepShaver is Tokyo, Japan.
Image
SheepShaver was updated to (19-01-2024), but the problem with the timestamps being off by 14 hours on Windows drives was not fixed. :sad:
Korkman
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by Korkman »

I can add my SheepShaver install on my main Ryzen 5900X Windows machine broke silently. Cannot map RAM: No error. I haven't used it in recent months and all I can guess is that a Windows or BIOS update must have added a security feature which breaks compatibility. Likely in the realm of CPU vulnerabilities since only Ryzen seems to be affected.
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adespoton
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by adespoton »

Korkman wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2024 5:14 pm I can add my SheepShaver install on my main Ryzen 5900X Windows machine broke silently. Cannot map RAM: No error. I haven't used it in recent months and all I can guess is that a Windows or BIOS update must have added a security feature which breaks compatibility. Likely in the realm of CPU vulnerabilities since only Ryzen seems to be affected.
Try going to Windows Security -> Device Security -> Core Isolation, and disabling Memory Integrity. This will require a reboot. Microsoft made some changes in WIndows 11 that turns this feature on by default, even if it was disabled before. They appear to do this every Patch Tuesday, and at other random times, so the issue will likely come back. If you disable it on Windows 10 or older Windows 11 builds, the setting will stick, but not any longer.
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OldyTheOld
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by OldyTheOld »

Does The New SheepShaver Sound Work Well When i Run Copy Of Prince Of Persia On MAC OS 9.0.4?
An computer guy.
Korkman
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by Korkman »

adespoton wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2024 7:02 pm
Korkman wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2024 5:14 pm I can add my SheepShaver install on my main Ryzen 5900X Windows machine broke silently. Cannot map RAM: No error. ...
Try going to Windows Security -> Device Security -> Core Isolation, and disabling Memory Integrity. ...
Good hint, but it was already disabled. Also tried disabling other security features but haven't found one that works.
Korkman
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by Korkman »

Korkman wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2024 5:14 pm I can add my SheepShaver install on my main Ryzen 5900X Windows machine broke silently. Cannot map RAM: No error. ...
Ah, found the culprit. MSI AfterBurner, when configured to prepare metrics for on-screen display (edit: in other words, when RivaTuner Statistics Server is running), conflicts with SheepShaver.
chenchijung
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by chenchijung »

Try to stop MSI afterburner, then official release sheepshaver (01.19.2024) works fine.
Start MSI afterburner then sheepshaver(01.19.2024) fail again.

The patch mentioned below (move MAC system memory allocation to as close as start of main()) can co-exist with afterburner.
But still don't know why.
chenchijung wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 10:09 am Try to download source code and build it, and find the allocation memory for MAC system memory fails.
But can not identify why it fails (paramaters seems OK)
So. I did a quick and dirty fix:
move these code (Line329-351 of main_windows.c, for memory allocation of MAC system RAM)
to line 205
(right after this call:
// Read preferences
PrefsInit(NULL, argc, argv);
)
(That is, the memory allocation for MAC system memory move forward to as close as start of main())
Then the memory allocation can success.

It is quite strange. Still do not know the root cause.
chenchijung wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 10:29 am
Cat_7 wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 8:47 am SheepShaver is a 32 bit application. The problem lies in SheepShaver accessing memory that is in use. Have you tried to start SheepShaver right after a clean boot?
Or stop other programs that you might have running before starting SheepShaver?

I have no idea whether other ryzen users face the same problem.

Best,
Cat_7
Yes. I try to start "SheepShaver for Windows (19-01-2024)" right after windows booting for all 3 ryzen PCs. None of them works.
Then I run "SheepShaver for Windows 2.3-Pre (14.May.2006)", it can work with some minor error message boxes after macos booting.

System memory size should not be an issue, since I have 16G or 32G in these PCs.

I try old release (2015.03.15 and 2010.05.05) and also see this issue.
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adespoton
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by adespoton »

chenchijung wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 5:26 am Try to stop MSI afterburner, then official release sheepshaver (01.19.2024) works fine.
Start MSI afterburner then sheepshaver(01.19.2024) fail again.

The patch mentioned below (move MAC system memory allocation to as close as start of main()) can co-exist with afterburner.
But still don't know why.
chenchijung wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 10:09 am Try to download source code and build it, and find the allocation memory for MAC system memory fails.
But can not identify why it fails (paramaters seems OK)
So. I did a quick and dirty fix:
move these code (Line329-351 of main_windows.c, for memory allocation of MAC system RAM)
to line 205
(right after this call:
// Read preferences
PrefsInit(NULL, argc, argv);
)
(That is, the memory allocation for MAC system memory move forward to as close as start of main())
Then the memory allocation can success.

It is quite strange. Still do not know the root cause.
chenchijung wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 10:29 am

Yes. I try to start "SheepShaver for Windows (19-01-2024)" right after windows booting for all 3 ryzen PCs. None of them works.
Then I run "SheepShaver for Windows 2.3-Pre (14.May.2006)", it can work with some minor error message boxes after macos booting.

System memory size should not be an issue, since I have 16G or 32G in these PCs.

I try old release (2015.03.15 and 2010.05.05) and also see this issue.
chenchijung, have you submitted a pull request to Kanjitalk755 repo? This is a long-standing known issue based on memory allocation, and your patch seems to improve things significantly, so there will be less likelihood of a conflict in many different situations on Windows.
chenchijung
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by chenchijung »

adespoton wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2024 5:54 pm
chenchijung wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 5:26 am Try to stop MSI afterburner, then official release sheepshaver (01.19.2024) works fine.
Start MSI afterburner then sheepshaver(01.19.2024) fail again.

The patch mentioned below (move MAC system memory allocation to as close as start of main()) can co-exist with afterburner.
But still don't know why.
chenchijung wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 10:09 am Try to download source code and build it, and find the allocation memory for MAC system memory fails.
But can not identify why it fails (paramaters seems OK)
So. I did a quick and dirty fix:
move these code (Line329-351 of main_windows.c, for memory allocation of MAC system RAM)
to line 205
(right after this call:
// Read preferences
PrefsInit(NULL, argc, argv);
)
(That is, the memory allocation for MAC system memory move forward to as close as start of main())
Then the memory allocation can success.

It is quite strange. Still do not know the root cause.

chenchijung, have you submitted a pull request to Kanjitalk755 repo? This is a long-standing known issue based on memory allocation, and your patch seems to improve things significantly, so there will be less likelihood of a conflict in many different situations on Windows.
No. Since It is based on my guessing, don't know the reason why it can workaround this issue. It needs more people to try before check-in the patch into Kanjitalk755 repo.
chenchijung
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by chenchijung »

adespoton wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2024 5:54 pm
chenchijung wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 5:26 am Try to stop MSI afterburner, then official release sheepshaver (01.19.2024) works fine.
Start MSI afterburner then sheepshaver(01.19.2024) fail again.

The patch mentioned below (move MAC system memory allocation to as close as start of main()) can co-exist with afterburner.
But still don't know why.
chenchijung wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 10:09 am Try to download source code and build it, and find the allocation memory for MAC system memory fails.
But can not identify why it fails (paramaters seems OK)
So. I did a quick and dirty fix:
move these code (Line329-351 of main_windows.c, for memory allocation of MAC system RAM)
to line 205
(right after this call:
// Read preferences
PrefsInit(NULL, argc, argv);
)
(That is, the memory allocation for MAC system memory move forward to as close as start of main())
Then the memory allocation can success.

It is quite strange. Still do not know the root cause.

chenchijung, have you submitted a pull request to Kanjitalk755 repo? This is a long-standing known issue based on memory allocation, and your patch seems to improve things significantly, so there will be less likelihood of a conflict in many different situations on Windows.
Just create a pull request to kanjitalk755 repo. Please check. (This is my 1st time to use git. Please check for me)
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adespoton
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by adespoton »

chenchijung wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 12:02 pm
adespoton wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2024 5:54 pm
chenchijung wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 5:26 am Try to stop MSI afterburner, then official release sheepshaver (01.19.2024) works fine.
Start MSI afterburner then sheepshaver(01.19.2024) fail again.

The patch mentioned below (move MAC system memory allocation to as close as start of main()) can co-exist with afterburner.
But still don't know why.

chenchijung, have you submitted a pull request to Kanjitalk755 repo? This is a long-standing known issue based on memory allocation, and your patch seems to improve things significantly, so there will be less likelihood of a conflict in many different situations on Windows.
Just create a pull request to kanjitalk755 repo. Please check. (This is my 1st time to use git. Please check for me)
Looks right to me, both the logic of the re-order and the PR. Now we have to wait for Kanjitalk755 to get a chance to review it :)

Thing is, this isn't just an issue on Windows; other platforms have the same issue. So we may want to pursue an upstream solution that isn't platform-specific. I haven't figured out how we'd tweak main.cpp to solve the problem more generically though. Maybe others have some thoughts.
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Cat_7
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by Cat_7 »

I've posted a new build in the first post in this thread with the fix for the "cannot map RAM:No Error" error.

Best,
Cat_7
chenchijung
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by chenchijung »

Korkman wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 8:13 pm
Korkman wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2024 5:14 pm I can add my SheepShaver install on my main Ryzen 5900X Windows machine broke silently. Cannot map RAM: No error. ...
Ah, found the culprit. MSI AfterBurner, when configured to prepare metrics for on-screen display (edit: in other words, when RivaTuner Statistics Server is running), conflicts with SheepShaver.
Please try the most recent build:
SheepShaver for Windows (25-02-2024)
Can be downloaded from the 1st post of this thread.
S6Bow
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by S6Bow »

Since when, I get the error "Cannot map RAM: No error". Then it exits with no screen.
Even after updating to the version of (25-02-2024), the error still occurs.
Also in the Event Viewer, Event 7000: "The cdenable service could not be started due to the following error: loading of this driver is blocked" and Event 1060: "\SystemRoot\SysWow64\Drivers\cdenable.sys message resource exists, but message not found in message table." is logged.

Graphics environment is AMD Radeon Vega 8 (1GB UMA Frame Buffer), CPU is AMD Ryzen 5 Mobile 3500U.
When I changed the UMA Frame Buffer Size from 1GB to 256MB in the BIOS settings, SheepShaver started. However, UMA Frame Buffer Size smaller than 1GB is deprecated and should not be used if possible.
Curiously, after SheepShaver was successfully booted with UMA Frame Buffer Size 256MB, SheepShaver was successfully booted even after the UMA Frame Buffer Size was set back to 1GB. Also, there is no problem in loading CD-ROM images.

The reiterated problem of timestamps being off by 14 hours on Windows drives was not corrected.
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adespoton
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by adespoton »

S6Bow wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:14 am Since when, I get the error "Cannot map RAM: No error". Then it exits with no screen.
Even after updating to the version of (25-02-2024), the error still occurs.
Also in the Event Viewer, Event 7000: "The cdenable service could not be started due to the following error: loading of this driver is blocked" and Event 1060: "\SystemRoot\SysWow64\Drivers\cdenable.sys message resource exists, but message not found in message table." is logged.

Graphics environment is AMD Radeon Vega 8 (1GB UMA Frame Buffer), CPU is AMD Ryzen 5 Mobile 3500U.
When I changed the UMA Frame Buffer Size from 1GB to 256MB in the BIOS settings, SheepShaver started. However, UMA Frame Buffer Size smaller than 1GB is deprecated and should not be used if possible.
Curiously, after SheepShaver was successfully booted with UMA Frame Buffer Size 256MB, SheepShaver was successfully booted even after the UMA Frame Buffer Size was set back to 1GB. Also, there is no problem in loading CD-ROM images.

The reiterated problem of timestamps being off by 14 hours on Windows drives was not corrected.
The only thing there I can address is the cdenable.sys bit -- BII no longer needs cdenable.sys, but will attempt to use it if it is present. Since you have it present but it can't load, you get the related error. It should have no impact on loading CD-ROM images or on actual CDs (which is what the driver was originally used for). Since cdenable.sys is not signed, a modern Windows OS won't load it.
Korkman
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by Korkman »

chenchijung wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 4:50 am
Korkman wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 8:13 pm
Korkman wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2024 5:14 pm I can add my SheepShaver install on my main Ryzen 5900X Windows machine broke silently. Cannot map RAM: No error. ...
Ah, found the culprit. MSI AfterBurner, when configured to prepare metrics for on-screen display (edit: in other words, when RivaTuner Statistics Server is running), conflicts with SheepShaver.
Please try the most recent build:
SheepShaver for Windows (25-02-2024)
Can be downloaded from the 1st post of this thread.
Your patch fixed it for me! Thanks!
S6Bow
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by S6Bow »

I was getting the "Cannot map RAM: No error." error again.
Even after updating to the version of (25-02-2024), the error still occurred.
I rebooted, and now I get the error "Cannot map second Kernel Data area: 487."
I cannot use SheepShaver. I revert to the old version and still get the error.
Image
emendelson
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by emendelson »

If you have the time, could you try this setup and report if it works?

https://mendelson.org/macos9win.html
S6Bow
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by S6Bow »

As before, when we temporarily reduced the VRAM size to 512 MB in the BIOS, SheepShaver successfully started up, and again when we set the VRAM to 1 GB.
However, eventually, SheepShaver will not be able to start again because of the "Cannot map RAM: No error." error.
I wonder if it is possible to make SheepShaver always start successfully without such VRAM manipulation.
chenchijung
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by chenchijung »

S6Bow wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 2:03 pm I was getting the "Cannot map RAM: No error." error again.
Even after updating to the version of (25-02-2024), the error still occurred.
I rebooted, and now I get the error "Cannot map second Kernel Data area: 487."
I cannot use SheepShaver. I revert to the old version and still get the error.
Image
When I made my workaround, I only move "Create area for Mac RAM" and "Create area for Mac ROM" ahead.
Because these 2 are the largest memory allocation.
Only move "Create area for MAC RAM" ahead can fix my issue (ryzen CPU + MSI afterburner cause "Cannot map RAM: No error", close afterburner can avoid this issue)
But I also move "Create area for MAC ROM" ahead.
And, there are some other "Create area (memory allocation) codes.
This error is in kernel_data_init().
I guess that we need to move all remaining memory allocations ahead.
If you can build code, please try to move line 327 ~ 357 to line 248 of main_windows.cpp from kanjitalk755 25-02-2024 repo, build code and try again.

I try to build one. Please download it from
https://github.com/chenchijung/macemu/b ... Shaver.exe
and try it.
Last edited by chenchijung on Sat Mar 09, 2024 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
S6Bow
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by S6Bow »

chenchijung wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 5:55 am I try to build one. Please download it from
https://github.com/chenchijung/macemu/b ... Shaver.exe
and try it.
Thanks. I will try this exe file for a while.
It took a few days for the previous exe file to suddenly stop starting, so I think it will take some time to verify this exe file as well.
S6Bow
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Re: SheepShaver for Windows

Post by S6Bow »

Even @chenchijung's exe file did not resolve the error.
I had been checking the startup of SheepShaver every day until today, but today, right after turning on the power, after starting Firefox and Excel, I tried to start SheepShaver and got the error "Cannot map SheepShaver Data area: No error." error again.
As before, when we temporarily reduced the VRAM size to 512MB in the BIOS, SheepShaver successfully started up, and again when we set the VRAM to 1GB.
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