A/UX AppleTalk information

Anything not about Mac emulation.

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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

Post by Cat_7 »

Neozeed has a post that perhaps can act as a guide on this forum. viewtopic.php?t=8483
Sadly I cannot find his hacked 0.5 build with slirp network for windows.

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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

Post by Cat_7 »

What is interesting regarding A/UX 111 is this post: viewtopic.php?p=47741#p47741
You need to login as root, change to e.g. init 5, and then run the toolbox daemon in the background to start GUI apps. Alas the only example given is how to run a terminal.
However, the control panel is accessible when running term, but it has no network options.

There is another remark in the thread about shoebill not running Mac OS, but I have no idea whether that changed later on.

The issue with 2.0.1 and login respawning to quickly is not yet solved....

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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

Post by Mk.558 »

Are disk images compatible with Shoebill also compatible with qemu-m68k-aux? Obviously only A/UX 3.0 will work on qemu, but just curious.
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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

Post by Cat_7 »

In my tests with Shoebill, I created the images for 1.1.1 and 2.1 with qemu running a/ux, so yes they can be partitioned (in qemu), and written and read in both.

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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

Post by Mk.558 »

Thank you for the reply.
I created the images for 1.1.1 and 2.1
...were you able to successfully install on both and get them working in Shoebill? If so, ... that could cut out my workload, as I don't want to spend the time if I don't have to. :mrgreen:
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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

Post by Cat_7 »

Cat_7 wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 5:54 amI ran the "installations" (copy of cd content to disk) for 1.1.1 and 2.1 with Qemu running A/UX 3.11. I then booted the resulting disks in shoebill.

I also changed the initlevel by editing the appropriate file from inside Qemu A/UX 3.11
btw: the aux 2.0 image available on winworldpc boots to the desktop OK in Shoebill. The 2.0.1 image I had wouldn't.
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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

Post by Mk.558 »

Image

term program. There's also hfx, which is what you see at penelope's photo library.

I don't know if there is much else to do. I'm trying to figure out how to exit SASH, so that it doesn't boot automatically into SASH mode, but in System 6.0.4.

I got a plain jane install of AUX 3.0.1 for qemu going, literally installed it, rebooted it and shut it down, did nothing else. I can't seem to mount any disk image to it. The goal was to make A/UX 1.1.1 and 2.0 Shoebill images larger than the installation CD by booting up A/UX 3.0.1, mounting a disk image that has Disk Copy, Fetch, BinHex 4.0, other things like that such that (probably should add MacBinary II program), and use the HD SC Setup on the A/UX 1 and 2.0 to format the blank 320MB disk image. That way each install has an 80MB Macintosh partition, 32MB swap, and the rest is A/UX root/user slice 0. But I can't get the disk image to mount (the AUX_COMP32MB.dsk image). Since networking only works with FTP, and I can't transfer Mac files over via FTP without corruption, kind of stuck. EtherTalk doesn't seem to work in the Chooser.

Code: Select all

qemu-system-m68k.exe ^
-m 128 ^
-M q800 ^
-display sdl ^
-serial stdio ^
-bios Quadra800.rom ^
-g 800x600x8 ^
-drive file=pram-aux.img,format=raw,if=mtd ^
-device scsi-hd,scsi-id=1,drive=hd0 ^
-drive file=AUX301_320MB.img,media=disk,format=raw,if=none,id=hd0 ^
-device scsi-hd,scsi-id=2,drive=hd1 ^
-drive file=AUX1_320MB.img,media=disk,format=raw,if=none,id=hd1 ^
-device scsi-hd,scsi-id=3,drive=hd2 ^
-drive file=AUX_COMP32MB.dsk,media=disk,format=raw,if=none,id=hd2 ^
-device scsi-cd,scsi-id=4,drive=cd0 ^
-drive file=AUX_1.1.1.iso,format=raw,media=cdrom,if=none,id=cd0
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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

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A/UX will not mount these drives automagically. You nee to mount them manually or edit the fstab file to have them mount at boot.

mount -o rw /dev/dsk/c1d0s0 /mnt will mount a drive with scsi id 1 in read/write mode to the /mnt directory.
The network has to be configured the unix way, so messing with mactcp will disrupt it.

If you read the shoebill thread, I believe you'll see the HD SC Setup program will not work in Shoebill. For partitioning it is best to use Qemu with A/UX 3.
For Windows, networking only works with the windows build of the 0.0.5 source code Neozeed created.

To copy stuff from the cd to some hard disk partition, you can follow the guide on aux-penelope.

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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

Post by Mk.558 »

Do you know if you have to use the specific HD SC Setup that came with previous versions of A/UX to partition the earlier systems?
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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

Post by Cat_7 »

No,

You can partition with the 3.x tool you have when running Qemu.

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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

Post by Mk.558 »

Thanks. I got a 320MB disk image of A/UX 1.1.1 with a 80MB MacPartition ready. When my BlueSCSI shows up I'll give it a whirl on the IIci, and then build A/UX 2.0 on that too. We'll see if Shoebill likes it :)
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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

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http://bitsavers.org/pdf/apple/mac/a_ux/

Found this by manually backing up the Directory Listing.

Never seen A/UX 1.x documentation before. This will get interesting...

E: Browsed through the A/UX 1.0 stuff. Sure doesn't look like there's much to do once you're in A/UX mode (see the Installation Guide and Getting Started with A/UX). At least in A/UX 2.0 you could have MultiFinder permanently on to run something: if it was compatible with A/UX!

Seems like A/UX 1.0 will support Ethernet, but no AppleTalk compatibility is included for AppleShare, only the 3 printers. I was unable to locate the System Folder and using whereis couldn't find "Finder" "System" so it's probably just stored as a binary image that gets unpacked or something.

A/UX 2.0 says that if the Ethernet card is detected and compatible, it likes to go off that by default. I don't know if that extends to the Chooser for AppleShare/printers (printers were generally all LocalTalk back then) because there's no Network control panel. I'll find out some day soon.

Also I thought this was funny:

Image

Well, I'm glad you are optimistic about the performance of your product. Version 1.0 and all that.
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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

Post by Cat_7 »

See this about A/UX 1.1.1 specifically:

https://fsck.technology/documentation/A ... 1-8908.pdf
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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

Post by Mk.558 »

Neat, thanks.
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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

Post by Mk.558 »

I finished an install of A/UX 2.0.1 onto a BlueSCSI disk image and booted into to it. A/UX 3.0.1 was done about a week ago. Still need to fight A/UX 1.1.1, it doesn't want to work right and KPs when switching to A/UX. I'll try some more this weekend: followed Penelope's instructions to the letter.

Naturally the A/UX 2.0.1 image does not boot in Shoebill:

Code: Select all

C:\Users\xxxxxxxxxxxx\Downloads\Apple AUX 3.0.1 on Shoebill emulator>shoebill.exe rom=MacII.rom disk0=HD30_512_AUX2_320MB.img
Shoebill v0.0.4 - http://github.com/pruten/shoebill - Peter Rutenbar (c) 2014

'unix' in '/unix' doesn't exist

C:\Users\xxxxxxxxxxxx\Downloads\Apple AUX 3.0.1 on Shoebill emulator>
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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

Post by adespoton »

Mk.558 wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 2:17 am I finished an install of A/UX 2.0.1 onto a BlueSCSI disk image and booted into to it. A/UX 3.0.1 was done about a week ago. Still need to fight A/UX 1.1.1, it doesn't want to work right and KPs when switching to A/UX. I'll try some more this weekend: followed Penelope's instructions to the letter.

Naturally the A/UX 2.0.1 image does not boot in Shoebill:

Code: Select all

C:\Users\xxxxxxxxxxxx\Downloads\Apple AUX 3.0.1 on Shoebill emulator>shoebill.exe rom=MacII.rom disk0=HD30_512_AUX2_320MB.img
Shoebill v0.0.4 - http://github.com/pruten/shoebill - Peter Rutenbar (c) 2014

'unix' in '/unix' doesn't exist

C:\Users\xxxxxxxxxxxx\Downloads\Apple AUX 3.0.1 on Shoebill emulator>
I just got A/UX 0.7 running "smoothly" today (where smoothly means "no core dumps as long as you avoid trying to run files with resource forks"). The issue I'd been banging my head against was that 0.7 requires the "Toby" display. I still haven't figured out: 1. the 2.0.1 init respawn issue, 2. how to install the 3.0.2 floppy, and 3. networking using VMNet. But I think I determined that sdl-shoebill doesn't actually call the Ethernet Init function, so maybe when I've got some time to hack around a bit more, I can get it working. Tun0 does seem to at least partially work on Linux.
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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

Post by adespoton »

Cat_7 wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 6:24 am See this about A/UX 1.1.1 specifically:

https://fsck.technology/documentation/A ... 1-8908.pdf
AppleTalk® for A/UX Version 2.0 (included with A/UX Version 1.1.1)
-- although it only talks about printers, not file sharing. NFS seems to be the answer for file sharing.
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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

Post by Mk.558 »

I'm unable to boot into A/UX 1.1.1 on my IIci. It bombs with either Error 28 (translates to "stack has moved into application heap") or Error 10 ("line 1111 trap error").

I'd try with the SE/30 but the ROM is really worn out on the contacts and it can be unstable. I need to order another ROM SIMM for it. Does anybody else here have a real machine to boot A/UX 1.1.1?

Also I noticed a small error on the wiki: "A/UX version 1.x is based on Mac OS 6.0, while versions 2 and 3 are based on Mac OS 7.0.1"

Close. A/UX 2.0 runs with System 6. From what I can tell, A/UX 1.1.1 shipped with 6.0.4, A/UX 2.0 with 6.0.5 and 2.0.1 with 6.0.7. (This is based on MrFarenheit451's disk images on the Garden, and I could be totally wrong.)

Image

I'm going to try the SE/30 anyways to see if maybe today it'll work.

E: Reflowed the contacts on the ROM, it boots now, but suffers from random reboots. Cannot boot into A/UX 3.0 because it just reboots when it gets to the stage to switch over. Like the IIci, cannot work with A/UX 1.1.1. 2.0.1 worked for a bit, then stopped.
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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

Post by adespoton »

Odd; https://aux-penelope.com/hardware.htm indicates that the IIci should technically be able to boot.

I was going to mention the same error on the wiki, but never got around to it :)

Possibly the image you're using to boot 1.1.1 has been corrupted by running through Shoebill, which has its own custom bootloader? Ensuring you've got an original 1.1.1 image not modified by Shoebill might be necessary. Since it's a dd, it's also possible that there's a memory size mismatch between the image and what you've got in your IIci. I ran into that at least once using dd images. I can't recall what I did to fix it.
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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

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Which error on the wiki? ;-)

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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

Post by adespoton »

Cat_7 wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2024 6:30 pm Which error on the wiki? ;-)

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"A/UX version 1.x is based on Mac OS 6.0, while versions 2 and 3 are based on Mac OS 7.0.1"

Version 0.7 won't boot Mac OS, but if it did, would be running 6.0.

Version 1.0 is essentially the same as 0.7, but doesn't core dump when you try to run a Mac app in the 6.0 environment. No desktop.

Version 1.1 and 1.1.1 let you load the toolbox environment which is equivalent of 6.0.4 without the Finder; apps are still launched from the terminal, but system extensions, DAs, and even the Finder will run.

Version 2.x loads the Finder/GUI environment by default, and loads System 6.0.5 (with Finder 6.1.5 AIX, which isn't quite the same as regular 6.1.5).

Version 3.0.x loads System 7.0.1.

Version 3.1.x loads System 7.0.1 with System 7 Tune-Up 1.1.1 (7.0.1*).

[edit] And there's my straight-man response. I think the Wiki update should handle that relatively well; no need to split hairs like I did ;)
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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

Post by Cat_7 »

I was joking as I fixed that a few days ago after the initial report ;-)

"A/UX version 1.x is based on System 6.0.4. Version 2.0 is based on System 6.0.5, while version 3 is based on System 7.0.1"

(It might also be I 'm missing some of the intricacies of the English language here)
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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

Post by adespoton »

Cat_7 wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2024 8:34 pm I was joking as I fixed that a few days ago after the initial report ;-)

"A/UX version 1.x is based on System 6.0.4. Version 2.0 is based on System 6.0.5, while version 3 is based on System 7.0.1"

(It might also be I 'm missing some of the intricacies of the English language here)
No, I was playing along, but also noting that the version info is even more nuanced than currently indicated (and that we don't really need to deal with that nuance).
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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

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It could be related to the BlueSCSI (external, V2). A/UX 2.0.1 likes to corrupt itself somehow in some weird ways. IDK. I'll probably try reinstalling it on the internal HDD if/when I get a Pentium III box to test out Windows 2K Server SFM. Pretty sure SFM will work but in a VirtualBox session only AFP over TCP works (and that's with using the Bridged Adapter).

IDK about A/UX 1.1.1. I still think aside from a 10 minute curiosity session in Shoebill, there's nothing interesting about it. A/UX 2.0.1 is interesting in a few ways, mostly because it's "odd" and "unusual" and "System 6". A/UX 3.0.1 kind of bores me, I don't really see anything really interesting about it despite being the most useful one.
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Re: A/UX AppleTalk information

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Mk.558 wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 4:12 pm It could be related to the BlueSCSI (external, V2). A/UX 2.0.1 likes to corrupt itself somehow in some weird ways. IDK. I'll probably try reinstalling it on the internal HDD if/when I get a Pentium III box to test out Windows 2K Server SFM. Pretty sure SFM will work but in a VirtualBox session only AFP over TCP works (and that's with using the Bridged Adapter).

IDK about A/UX 1.1.1. I still think aside from a 10 minute curiosity session in Shoebill, there's nothing interesting about it. A/UX 2.0.1 is interesting in a few ways, mostly because it's "odd" and "unusual" and "System 6". A/UX 3.0.1 kind of bores me, I don't really see anything really interesting about it despite being the most useful one.
Agreed about A/UX 1.x -- it's interesting from a "this is how things started" standpoint, but kind of useless as a working OS. 2.0.0 seems to function without trashing itself; I don't seem to be able to keep 2.0.1 running and functional for very long, however. Not long enough to figure out what they changed to make it so unstable. 3.0.1 is fine, but not really all that different from 3.1.1 which is obviously the version you'd want to use to actually get anything done.
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